Hello everybody, welcome back to the show my guest today is Lane Norton he's a doctor of nutritional science a power lifter and an author choosing the right diet and training plan for health can be complicated the internet offers one view while you're jacked friend with a suspiciously high blood pressure suggests another fortunately. We have actual scientists like lame to provide all the expertise you need to find the optimal diet foods and lifestyle for you to build the healthiest version of yourself expect to learn
why people so often fail at sticking to a diet if there is such a thing as a best diet for overall health and wellness lame thoughts on the new wave of those epic drugs whether the carnivore diet is actually healthier for you the top health foods. You should be eating more of how bad soy is for you whether you can build muscle on a vegan diet lame thought on Gary Becker and much more
But now ladies and Gentlemen, please welcome Lane Norton.
Why do diets fail so reliably over the long term
a lot of different reasons, but if we zoom out and take a 10,000-foot view the main reason is because people view it as a diet instead of lifestyle change. So if we dig into the statistics if of people who lose weight or
like of obese people seven out of every eight will lose a significant amount of body weight in their lifetime. So why do we have an obesity problem? The problem is they almost all of them put it back on and in many cases actually put on more than they lost. So if you look at the weight regain statistics and you go out like a year depending on the stats you use and the inclusion criteria for regain 50 to 70% will regained what they lost you go two years. It gets closer.
80 85 percent and if you look at three years, I mean you're looking at 90% Plus have put it back on and so a lot of people want to lose weight, but they only think about a diet as an endpoint. And so if you stop doing the habits and behaviors that allowed you to lose it in the first place, you're not going to sustain it. I mean a great example is my father did the ketogenic diet like 20 years.
Ago and he lost 30 pounds, but slowly he kind of reverted to his previous lifestyle. And so slowly the way it came back on and so I tell people it's hard to if you're going to lose a lot of weight. It's hard to change your life while dragging your old habits and behaviors behind you and for whatever reason this doesn't seem to like click with with diet and lifestyle because
You know, I I looked at a systematic review of successful weight loss maintainer. So you're basically talking about the five percent. Right? Like the people who lose it and keep it off. What do they have in common and this is a review by researcher named Marie sparkly and it really stood out to me because some of the stuff that you would expect is on there, which is cognitive restraint meaning their other tracking calories or limiting carbs or or time restricting some form of restraint. Right like you have to have some form of restraint.
But then and then there was exercised on their self-monitoring meaning they're weighing themselves frequently. You know, that's obvious like feedback. If you start going up you change your habits again, but then there was something on there that like really kind of it made sense, but I was like, huh? I never thought of it that way and it was a lot of them almost down to a person identified that they had to form a new identity.
Like they had to become someone else.
And you know, you can simply yes, so Ethan is a Hollywood actor who lost over 300 pounds and it's kept it off and now he coming he went from being basically like your prototype fat guy in a movie too. Like he looks like he'd play a Navy SEAL.
He's the Prototype hot guy in a
movie, right? Yeah. Yeah. He looks like a badass and he always would put up something when he posts his gym photos, which was I killed my clone
today. Hmm. I've got a t-shirt with that only some your T-shirt.
Yeah.
And I was like, I thought it was a cool saying but didn't really register and then when I read this review, I texted them immediately and I was like is this what you mean like forming a new identity? He said that is exactly what I mean. And if you think about it, it makes perfect sense. If your I don't want to say that there's like food addiction because the the actual research for that is kind of convoluted more about what they call Food dependence, which there are subtle differences, but regardless if you're an alcoholic.
haluk
You can't you can't live the same lifestyle you lived. You can't just say well, I'm going to stop drinking but I'm still going to go to bars and I'm still going to be around a bunch of people who drink. I mean, I guess you can try but it's going to be really hard for that to be successful. Right and so
One of the other things it was in this this review was they they pointed out that they had they lost friends and then they gained new friends. I think a lot of people would interpret that as well, you know, they're getting into fitness now and think they're too good for their old friends and I don't think it's that I think it's in a much more pragmatic level.
that if you're just doing new stuff, you're not going to like it's going to be hard to hang around people who just aren't into the stuff that you're into and also a lot of times and we see this a lot the whole crabs in a bucket you start improving yourself and people who
Let me put that back because I might get a little you start changing yourself and other people it makes them feel insecure think you
need to try and pull that back. I don't think that there is anybody out there that would say I'm over 30 BMI taking myself under the BMI is anything other than improving myself like your moral worth as a human doesn't change for sure. But your health outcomes do that's Improvement. There are people who would argue that. It doesn't what those people who are the people who have got a fucking like 22.5 BMI that a tilt dicks. There's people
Got a 35 BMI that a fantastic people for sure but those 35 BMI fantastic people at a 25 BMI have improved themselves like through zooming that what we want is flourishing humans that add to the world for a longer period of time for sure. Give yourself the best chance of last get that in you gone. Shove that in your face. Yeah. Yeah good man. Well you're dependent on it. Okay,
so actually give some good, you know some good
advice good. Yeah. Thank you why you've been slow so far speaking of this identity.
Change thing did anybody deconstruct that is that a tactics strategies mantras component parts that people can think I want to change my identity. What does that look like structurally?
Yeah, so not in the study, but the way I kind of present it to people is
Retro engineering. Okay, so think about the person you want to become and then think about what do I think that person's habits and behaviors look like if I want to lose 100 pounds do I think that is a person who's going to McDonald's every day? Probably not now. Can you theoretically go to McDonald's every day and lose 100 pounds? Sure. There are people who have done that sort of experiment whatever but for the most part that is not on average what you would find somebody doing who
That right. Are they drinking every day? Probably not. Are they exercising frequently probably so you start thinking about what do I think this person does on a daily basis if somebody, you know comes to a crisp Williamson and says I want to be one of the best podcasters in the game, right? Well people all the time say just try to emulate the end the end result. They don't try to emulate the process which is why you've got a bunch of 30,000 dollar millionaires taking pictures with rental cars and and jets they don't own.
Right. So the question becomes okay. If I'm looking at the end product what process do I think got them there and what is the evidence-based process for getting there and the evidence-based process for getting there is setting yourself up for success in terms of your environment. The people you're around and the things that you do on a day-to-day basis so many people and I think
it's almost like a Hollywood thing if you watch a movie, it's like almost always the change in a character or the crescendo of the movie is some revolutionary thing that changes everything and all of a sudden it stops on a
dime 182nd Montage.
Right? And the reality is it's it's rarely like that rarely does a switch flip. It is the slow Progressive accumulation of small things that you do.
Everyday that feel like nothing that feel like they don't actually do anything but you do that over time and it makes a big difference. One of my favorite quotes is one of the problems that keep people from being successful as people drastically overestimate what they can do in 10 weeks, but they drastically underestimate what they can do in 10 years. And if I look back I was actually having this conversation with a friend of mine who's very successful financially and career-wise and he's in a place right now where he's saying man, I just don't feel like I'm getting any traction and
I feel stuck. I'm not moving I said, hey men, like just look at the data. Okay, the data says over the last 10 years you progress and you are successful but there are going to be periods of time where it feels like you're not and even in like the last 10 years. I look at the last 10 years or even 20 years of my life my God, look at all the stuff I did but if I zoom in two weeks months even some years I felt like
Can progress was completely intractable and it felt like I was you know stuck in mud, but when you keep your feet moving when you zoom out and you kind of get through that spot a lot of times you realize oh no, I was making progress. I just had an actualized it yet. I hadn't seen those gains yet. We don't we talk about this in powerlifting which I compete in a lot of times your training under a high level of fatigue. And so you're getting stronger, but it's being masked by the fact that you have so much fatigue and then when you pull back when you
A all the sudden you actualize those gains and I think so many people stopped in that area whether under the high fatigue and they never actualize those gains. And so what I'll getting back to your original question, what I will say is the stuff that works is not sexy. It doesn't sell and it seems insignificant in many ways, but it is
A small daily repeated habits done over and over and over again and I even put up a post today talking about how lifting changed my life and not because I got a better physique or because I got physically stronger because it taught me so many things about resilience and working through setbacks and not quitting when things got hard and being patient and I remember like I'd really skinny legs when I started lifting.
And even after three years of training my legs were still really skinny and I remember being really frustrated and wanting to quit except I had these great parents that were like, we're not quitters Norton's don't quit and so I said to myself, you know, maybe maybe I'll never have a good set of legs and this is what I was competing in bodybuilding, but I'm going to put in 10 years of work and if it doesn't happen, then I'll allow myself to quit and I can feel good about it.
It because I know I did everything I could and sure enough funny enough after 10 years. I didn't have the best set of legs on stage, but they were good, you know, and then 17 years after that. I actually went and said of world squat record and I can remember my coach who had known me for like almost 20 years when I came downstairs after Dubai drug testing and setting that world record. He was sitting on a 5 gallon bucket and he was crying. He never cries. She's not an emotional guy.
I was like dude, what is it? And he goes you with a skinny kid. You were the kid with skinny legs that everybody on the bodybuilding forums made fun of how did you just do that? And when I what I tell people is it was just I just kept going day after day after day doing the work and again, it felt like it was taking forever. But when you accumulate all that stuff up, it's amazing. What could do to me? Even you like look at what you've done, you know, James was telling me about how the
You got started in podcasting everything and James gives this great talk. We're basically talking to entrepreneurs and the Crux of the talk is just freaking go just like be willing to fail like so many people are frozen by paralysis by analysis. I think that's where a lot of the were I work with trying to dispel diet Miss. I'm trying to simplify it for people because people here all these conflicting myths
And a lot of times they never start because they're so afraid of getting it wrong and it's like no get it wrong. It's fine like get it wrong. But learn you know, and then over time you will find what works but you can't ever do that. If you don't start the best heuristic that I've learned to help people overcome that fear of not being perfect. Like, I'm an Optimizer right Tim Ferriss. I loved listening to him on the come-up. We did 25 episodes of life hacks on how
To make the perfect toasted sandwich during your meditation app or you'd screen time blocking or this new type of Crocs or whatever. They like the best bamboo cotton pants we found so I was an Optimizer and the problem with being someone that wants to do things. Right and does the cares and does things with earnestness and stuff like that. Is that there? Is this sort of
You allow yourself to be excused from doing a thing because what I'm just finding out the information right? I'm sort of stuck in this Preparatory phase. I'm permanently permanently writing the plan and actually acting on the on the plan and the best thing because we can throw pithy aphorisms around all day and I'm sometimes accused of doing that. Tactically the best thing that I've relied on for. This is is this a reversible decision if it's a reversible decision starting a diet is the most fucking reversed
But because tomorrow guess what you can do a different diet probably not a good idea. But if you say hey for 60 days, I'm just going to give this a crack. I'm going to see if intermittent fasting is for me as opposed to watching all of the podcasts about it or reading all of the Articles or you know arguing with people on fucking Instagram comments about it. Like you do that like just not it's a reversible decision for sure. Right and if it's a reversible decision, then the net cost of you trying it is
Zero, right because all that you will have lost is some of the time that you would have lost vacillating about whether or not to make the decision in any case so why not just have a crack and close the loop on dude. I tried intermittent fasting to know what it is might work for some people I can't deal with the hunger pangs I get to 2 p.m. And I'm like, I got to eat everything and it causes me to rebound more nighttime or or it might be like for me keto for me really doesn't I don't like the way that my stomach feels on keto.
No, I feel very hungry. A lot of the time high fat doesn't seem to agree with me fine by close that loop I close that Loop like 10 years ago and my all right. I have some different dietary Tools in my tool kit kiito's not one of them. Maybe I'll give another crack in five years, maybe my constitutional have changed a little bit or whatever. So what you've mentioned there is that and this is a really interesting and really important. I think identity-based change someone thinks about the end result type of person not necessarily a person.
What would that type of person do? What would the best version of you tomorrow want you today to do what sort of decisions would they make now presumably the only way that you can actually work out what those decisions are. Yes. I want to be leaner. I want to be healthy. I want to be fair to I want to be the sort of person that looks good with the top off or whatever. It might be but you need to actually understand what the contributing elements are of that strategy. And if you don't know what the principles are that you need to follow your like wishing for this outcome.
Come with no mechanism to help yourself get that.
Yeah, I think you need to have a strong why to like that's that's the other thing I get. There are some people I talk to are stuck in perpetuity of trying to lose five pounds and I'm like, hey,
Why are you trying to lose this and a lot of times as well? You know, I just want to look them. Like is it really going to be that big of a difference from where you are now, you know like you're torturing yourself over this thing and why don't you just do it? Well, the reason you don't you not doing it is because you're why isn't strong enough you haven't identified why that is more important than say you're going to eat the
extra socializing with your friends. Oh, yeah, you allowing yourself. It's not interesting that
Some people can kind of become and I've got a lot of fat and I probably in many regards still amnesty taking a good amount of pride in my condition in my strength in the way that I look in the way that I can move and stuff like that but I let go of at least like I have to be the one of the biggest Lena's tractors guys in the gym thing, maybe about 6 or 7 years ago. If you don't do that, you can basically just get stuck on that level playing the same game for the rest of your life. Like I have this unrequited love with my physique. I had this unrequited
he'd love with the number of Partners. I've slept with I have this unrequited love with the amount of money that I've made or whatever and people just continue to play this game over and over and over again as opposed to going if this matter to me that much I would probably be closer to my goals and that's probably an uncomfortable realization for a lot of people. Yeah. I mean like I've had this conversation quite a bit recently of
That goal post will always move, you know, but for me, like I'm competing in Nationals this weekend, which by the way is why my nails are painted because my daughter and I we have a tradition she seven and she paints my nails before everybody's what's the style that she's gone for here. Can you describe it? Usually we do red white and blue for the USA obviously red blue and glitter so but she had some glitter and she wanted to use that. So that's I'm pretty sure it's because you're in a tested Federation, correct? I'm not sure that that's going to pass. It's not Daddy. No, that's that's that's at least
Two thing that you can do
it. Well, it is a performance enhancer for me.
That's correct. That's correct. All right, so,
but I did want to touch on for me.
I mean I got second in the world in 2015 in powerlifting and at the biggest pouting meet at that point in history and then went through a bunch of injuries. Like I could write out a laundry list of stuff multiple herniated discs tears and muscles in my hips a doctor tears partially torn pecs like a laundry list of stuff. That's a fun. It took me eight years to get back and when Masters worlds sorry seven years.
And there were I mean that's a long time and there was a lot of failures to launch of me starting to come back and then going back to the beginning. I mean that must have been at least a half dozen times and it was very frustrating and there were times where I questioned it, but I had a very strong why of I believed deep in my soul that I could be a world champion. I believe that and I also believed deep down that I had not been.
The strongest that I could have been and like tear point of the goalpost moving it wasn't about I've got to be strong in all these little guys it was I believed it deep in my soul and it was important for me to prove that to myself that I could get through that that I could come back and I love competing. So I had a really strong why and that's what allowed me to get through that and when I did it it was I've one of the things I'll give myself credit for is I'm good about
Getting myself credit. Some people have said oh, you're cocky. I'm like, no, I've done some pretty bad motherfucker stuff and like I'm okay with giving myself that credit because I've met so many people who are so successful in so many ways.
And they're miserable because they never go.
That was awesome. Yeah. Well like you're allowed to do that. It's okay, you know like I when I got second at World in 2015 instead of wall squat record, and that was after I had herniated some discs even I was out in my boat in the Florida Keys by myself just on vacation and I literally took 15 minutes. I was like damn like minute like good job, you know because
I remembered I knew this guy in the bodybuilding the message boards and this guy had a terrible Aesthetics for bodybuilding like horrible had no business even being a pro bodybuilder, but he worked so hard and he got so lean that he got third at the world championships for drug tested bodybuilding. I would like it was unbelievable. Honestly, like he maxed it out and people were congratulating him online and he said I'll never forget it. He said
You know, thanks guys, but to me anything less than overall Victory is just a complete failure and I'm like what a miserable existence like dude. It's okay and it's okay. It just gives you give yourself credit doesn't mean that you can't strive.
You're selling yourself short.
Yeah for me that actually helps me strive for more because I allow myself to feel it. I allow myself to feel
good positive reward. Yeah, if you're not if you're not going to celebrate yourself when you get even close to your goal. What the fuck you doing it for ya, isn't it?
Strange that where it's more publicly acceptable to be our own biggest critic than our own biggest fun.
Yup, exactly. I have a friend who's a psychologist and every once in a while. She'll like she'll validate me and then she noticed that when she would do that. I would kind of be like, oh, well, you know wasn't that minimized and she go Lane you do it again. You do your this is what you you want this but if you keep deferring it, you're actually what you're telling me is you don't want it and I'm like
You're right. I'm sorry. Thank you for validating me on that, you know and it really is funny. I think it's it's so weird. We can even feel bad about like talking about our income or talking about something or supposed to minimize the stuff we did and look I'm not saying like get up on the mountain top and Shout about all the great things you've done, but I think it's important to like
Make sure you're not goalpost shifting all the time. I mean I've talked about this stuff with like really really.
Really successful people and I'll never forget I had a client. I started online coaching in 2005 when I was in graduate school and one of my first clients, I turned Pro in natural bodybuilding. He was an estate planning attorney and he pulled me aside after that show. This is like 2007 and we were at dinner. He pulled me aside and he goes
I need to I need to talk to you about something. I've been around a lot of really successful people and I'm telling you you've got it. You've got it. You're going to be successful.
I've watched a lot of really successful people die and to a person they all say the same stuff they say I wish I had spent more time with my family. I wish I would have been more time with the people I cared about. I wish I would have travelled more. I wish I would have more experiences. I wish I wouldn't worry too much about the dumb shit that I worried about. None of them say that I wish I'd made another million dollars. I wish I'd you know,
spend more time in so I assume or an email.
Yeah, exactly and I had
add like that set with me but I think this last year I kind of even really had an epiphany of like I don't have to wait to enjoy my life. It's okay to enjoy it now and I was having a conversation with somebody like look what your goal was like to build stuff up and make a hundred million dollars and I'm like, no not really cause I don't want to live a life like somebody who does that because I want my kids to like their dad and I want to spend time with my friends and do fun stuff and like compete in powerlifting and
And do stuff that's fun for me because like what does that money even worth? If you can't do the stuff that you enjoy doing
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Up to 32 percent of everything site-wide. That's L IV e momemt OU s.com / modern wisdom. There's nothing sadder to me than seeing somebody that
Quantifiably very successful admirable lots of reputation status money a claim Prestige all that shit and you look and you go you have no fun. Like what's the point? Actually what's the point in the some people and I'm friends with a couple of them for whom greatness in it's sort of success metric kind of way is so important that they're prepared to sacrifice fun. Am I alright that's not necessarily the way that I'm wide, but that took me a little bit of time.
I'm to realize that it's not the way that I'm wine because fun and your enjoyment of life does not appear on any observable metric that you can brag about to other people. It's not apparent in your Instagram followers. It's not apparent in your bank balance, but it's all of those things are supposed to be Upstream from the actual outcome you want which is presumably a life that you enjoy and that you're proud of and that in retrospect you're glad that you
lived and they're not mutually exclusive either. Like I think
you can be successful and have fun. I don't know. Here's a question for you and this is actually
My number one question. I wrote at the bottom of my end of your review start of video, which was is it possible possible to be world-class and have fun at the same time. The reason that that's an interesting question is that
When you're talking world class you'll you know top Point whatever naught Point naught 1 percent within your chosen industry. If you are not prepared to sacrifice everything you will be beaten by somebody that is prepared to sacrifice everything in that one domain. Now. The question is what the outcome you're optimizing for. Are you optimizing for sort of a well-balanced holistic Integrated Life. Are you optimizing for maximum success within this very narrow domain if it's just that one you're going to get beaten by the other people, but if you
Can sacrifice a couple of percent in that for 50% more life enjoyment to me? That seems like a trade that's worth making I may have a different perspective on this and a couple different angles on it. I think the first thing is I look at it if you're talking about like we've got a very narrow window of time. I think you're probably right.
But I've just seen so many people burn out so fast and stuff and here I am 20 years later in the same industry still doing the same things I've done and it's because I enjoy what I do and it doesn't feel super fatiguing for me. But I've seen people come in flash in the pan and here I am the tortoise over here just chugging along and I keep going, you know, and the other thing that's interesting to is
Going through all these injuries and dealing with all this pain.
specifically with like within Sports and powerlifting
they're honestly with as much quackery as or is around nutrition. There's just as much around pain science. We think of pain management as stretching getting massaged surgery.
If you look at the actual evidence based stuff some of the strongest predictors of reducing pain and recovering from injuries are psychological in nature. So Stress Management, there's a very high correlation between chronic fatigue syndrome fibromyalgia. In fact most autoimmune diseases and high stress and psychological stress and psychiatric disorders when your body is like when you're spun up all the time.
It apparently increases your sensitivity to pain is one of the things that does it opens the call it like kind of a sorry they call it kind of like opening the gate of pain that as you get more stressed your gate widens allows more things in and interesting experiment. There was a while back where I think it was I might butcher the specifics, but the Crux of it will be accurate which they took 300 people and they
Apply the same amount of pressure to their skin and it was standardized. So everybody's getting the same pressure. They asked them to rate at zero through 100 0 being absolutely no pain whatsoever 100 being the most painful thing. They ever felt most the writings were around 50 Mark. So right in the middle, but there was somebody who rated as low as 4 and somebody who rated as high as 96 for one person the same pressure was basically nothing and for another person. It was one of those painful things I've ever felt
and so what that says is pain is an experience. It's almost like an emotion and if you read the biopsychosocial model of pain, it just really opens your eyes and other thing is sleep. So sleep deprivation will can increase your risk of injury by up to two hundred thirty six percent. So that looking at eight hours sleep purses four hours sleep a night and then actually your beliefs about pain and recovery. So people who
I believe they need excellent form on exercises to not get injured or actually more likely to get injured then people who believe their bodies are strong and resilient people who ruminate on pain who think about it constantly who like check it like if like if I have a back niggle and I'm thinking about it all the time if I'm like messing with it all the time the research shows that will make it worse. Whereas the people who are more like yeah, you know, I like great example complete total shift in my mind frame.
In 2016. I had a hip injury in training and started out. It wasn't that that one that bad but I kept beating on it trying to get through it and I kept thinking about it ruminating on it and after like 12 weeks. I couldn't even squat the bar below parallel without like 9 out of 10 pain. Whereas a comparable tweak. I did like six weeks ago prepping for Nationals. I was squatting 590 pounds for three reps. And on the third rap. I felt my adductor kind of
Tweak and it was sore after that probably like slightly strained it and I backed off I rested I didn't ruminate about it. I just was like, you know what we've been here before. This will be okay in a few weeks. We'll just take it as it comes.
As it stands three weeks three weeks later. I couldn't even feel it. It's totally fine. And I mean again, this is an in of one right but this is in line with the research and so getting back to what you're saying about. Can you focus and sacrifice all that's so for me my mental health became actually something I prioritize even more because it affected my training it affected my recovery from training. So some people will say well, you know, you post on your stories like you're having a bourbon watching the sunset.
Nothing exists in isolation like in isolation is alcohol good for training. Hell. No, but what if and I again I don't have any data on this, but what if me really enjoying that Sunset having a bourbon the relaxation effect of that.
Actually is a net positive for me. I'm not saying other people should do that and I'm not promoting people drink alcohol if you can relax and other ways but for whatever reason.
I have been able to recover more having more fun and sacrificing. I'm still sacrificing because I'm in the gym, you know 23 hours a day pretty much. I think my weekly training load is like 12 to 13 hours. It's a lot of training and I'm still being diligent with my nutrition that sort of thing well and I won't go out and get like hammered or anything like that, but I'll go my friends on the weekend. I have a few drinks, you know, and I think younger Lane would have been like your
not pushing hard enough for this you're not
And now being older I'm like, I'm trying to run the marathon, you know what I mean? And I've just seen so many people burn out. So I think the answer is yes and no so the answer is if you're talking about an if you got a Sprint in a very narrow sliver of time. Yes, the person who sacrificed more will win out every single time. But if you're looking at like long success, you have to find a way to make that sustainable for you and I think some people even even people
Who maybe have that success how many of them do we see they look back and they go man. I went, you know, probably didn't have to go do exactly what I did to get what I got. I probably could have like enjoyed a little bit more. And so I think there is a fine balance there and then the one other thing I would say is people also give them stress over they try to do everything at the same time. And one of the things I've really embraced now is there are seasons of life, right? So part of the reason I say I'm probably not gonna
A hundred million dollars is because even though an entrepreneur I want to compete in powerlifting and I want to train 23 hours a day, but also have kids. So
if you want to be a good dad and a good athlete you can't be 100 million are at the same time. Yeah, and I'm cool with it. I'm Brianna triage a
priority. Yeah. I'm cool making that sacrifice because I know I've had some like epic moments that you couldn't pay me enough for like selling that wall squat record back in 2015. There's not an amount of money. You could pay me to give that back because what would I go spend it on like to do what?
And and then so like other things I enjoy like I used to do competition Tactical Pistol shooting. I used to fish a lot more got my boat a lot more. I don't do that as much anymore, but I'm cool with it because I know the kids are going to graduate one day and I'll get to do that stuff in the future and I think if some people could just Embrace that there are seasons of Life, they feel they feel differently about things. I think a lot of people give themselves a lot of unnecessary stress because they feel like I should go back to school. I should start a business. I
Would you know get my nutrition wash? Hey if you're a single mom going back to school and you're working three jobs, maybe now is the time to like try to drop 20 pounds, you know, like, you know, like it's okay to embrace the seasonality of
Life. Yeah, GG move through wrote an article. I think two decades ago talking about periodization for life, and it's so fucking it's so true man. All right getting back to diet getting back to die with real better on you know, what at all no. No, I think it's important. I think it's important for people to see
How goals overall are sort of couched within a bigger ecosystem that that stuff is really
important. Nothing exists in
isolation. Is there such a thing as a best diet for fat loss and overall
health? Okay. So if we look at the research, there are now two meta-analyses looking at various different diets and their effectiveness on long-term weight loss and when I say meta-analysis, what we're talking about is essentially study of studies where
Are there using different inclusion criteria and they're trying to compile a bunch of similar studies to see if we can come to a consensus? Right? So one meta-analysis looked at four different popular diets another one looked at 14 and they ranged from low-carb high-fat to low-fat high-carb to everything in between and when I say low carb, I mean ketogenic up to ornish diet, which I think is like 80% carbohydrate.
And what they found was over the long term.
None of them were any better than the other ones for long-term weight loss and if we look at now those are kind of free living studies. So people say well, you know, maybe people weren't sticking to those there's another amount of analysis done. That's one of my favorite studies when we get in these arguments about low-carb versus this looked at equating calories and protein varying carbohydrate and fat and it's important to equate calories and protein obviously.
Therese if we don't equate energy, we're comparing apples to oranges and then protein is thermogenic so diets high in protein tend to cause more lean mass retention and tend to be more energetically expensive. So if we don't equate for that, sometimes we can see differences in Fat Loss even with equal calories, but when they do that and they very carbohydrate and fat this meta-analysis used only studies where at minimum all the meals were provided to participants so very controlled feedings.
Studies were adherence is very high up to metabolic Ward studies whether basically have them in food jail.
And found that there is essentially no practical difference in Fat Loss between these diets. In fact, it actually slightly favored the low-fat diets, but it was like 16 grams of extra fat loss per day was clinically irrelevant. Right? Like I would never tell somebody do that diet because you might get like 16 grams more fat loss per day like do the one that you can stick to
so
on a mechanistic level
we don't really see a difference in fat loss and there doesn't appear to be like on the average differences in adherence. The only time we really see big differences in inherence didn't studies is when there's some kind of support like when they're talking to a dietitian every month or every week that sort of thing that does increase adherence but overall no real difference in adherence rates, but when they stratify for adherence, so all these different diets don't produce differences in long-term weight loss, but when they stratify for adherence
Endless of diet type it's like a linear effect. And so what that says is
The best diet for you as an individual is the one that you can adhere to consistently and to lose weight. I like what Peter had Tia says he kind of puts weight loss types of dietary strategies in three different buckets. You have tracking restriction kind of where you're tracking your calories your Macros and you're restricting that way you have dietary restriction where you doing low fat low carb clean eating paleo.
You insert whatever type of diet and then you have time restriction. So intermittent fasting alternate day fasting any sort of those buckets. And those are kind of your three strategies that you can you can use you have to do some form of restriction all those involves some form of restriction. I like tracking macros and calories because I am brutally absurdly consistent when I can kind of eat the foods I like but just track it.
Some people hate that some people have a lot of anxiety around tracking. It feels very cumbersome to them for me. It was like 5 minutes a day, and it doesn't matter.
Some people like time restriction they do it and they go it didn't even feel like I was dieting you tried it. You didn't like it right some people they like the dietary restriction. Well, if I just eat these Foods I lose weight. Okay cool, as long as any of those could be sustainable for you.
You have to practice some form of restriction, but you should choose the form of restriction that feels the least restrictive for you. And also don't assume that it will feel the same for everyone else because this is where we get into the diet Wars right where you have people have a diet that worked for them. And now they're trying to evangelize everyone and get them on their team and it's actually really dive actually dug into the psychology of this a lot because after I've had so many these
Annette debates, I'm like, why do people get like this because I'm diagnostic. I mean I pretty much I don't want to take credit for flexible dieting and If It Fits your Macros, but I would say that no one would argue that I was one of the main people who popularized it. I don't have iifym or flexible dieting in my bio like cause I don't like I recognize that that wasn't for everybody but when I first started it
I was in bodybuilding and I found that just I would try to eat clean. But then I was binging every time I got exposed like pizza or my friends would have a dessert or whatever. I was like binge eating and I had this Epiphany. I'm like, you know, I'm pretty sure it's not like the if I had one slice of pizza, that's probably not what's harming me. It's probably the fact I'm gonna eat the whole pizza, right? And so I just started allowing myself kind of what I wanted, but tracking everything.
And all of a sudden I got brutally consistent started getting results very consistently.
So why do you think it is that people are so tribal about the diet of
choice. So I foolishly believed. Oh, this is the solution for everybody is why people can't be consistent so it started out very innocently and then I think there's an insecure element of it of people feel insecure about what they're doing and they're trying to get people on their team so they can feel better about it. I
think is that there's an inherent
but uncertainty in any sort of diet right science. Yeah, okay
and people are tribal why nature and it's a little bit of I think what I like to call the Tim Tebow effect. So do you remember when Tim Tebow was getting into the NFL? So are you familiar with him at all? Okay, so Tim Tebow was a Heisman Trophy winner who played in the NFL for I think probably like seven eight seasons and the the if you listen to the critics of him it was
Here's a horrible release angle. His mechanics are terrible as a quarterback. He really should be a tight end. He doesn't belong playing quarterback and he had low accuracy and all this kind of stuff and the people who were on his side were like, well, he's a Heisman Trophy winner and he's got a bunch of heart and he works hard and very positive guy. Like, he was also very religious and he was very outspoken about his religiousness. He became very polarizing not really for the things he said, but I
Looked at this with Fascination because he had he had won a playoff game as an NFL quarterback and he kind of had these games where he just have horrible horrible games and then somehow at the end he would will himself to Victory find a way to get to Victory and when the chips were down, it just seemed like that guy found a way to pull it out. So I kind of became a little bit of the fan. He seemed like a very positive guy when you knew people who knew him there like he's legit. He's a legitimately nice guy. And so I kind of was like, oh I kind of like this guy.
Then I would read the things that people would say that were negative towards him and I would get kind of defensive by look. But hey, you're how many how many playoff games is your quarterback one? Right, but if you were somebody who is on the other side and maybe you're not that invested in it. You're like, yeah, I mean this guy in that great. He's got good players around them. Like, you know, look at his arm mechanics. He's horrible, you know, it's really bad, but then you got this whole group of people who are he's the best quarterback of all time. He should be the NFL MVP and you go are you insane and so I
I think we drive each other apart with the strongest like we we do this in politics religion, whatever we take the most strawman interpretation of the other person's argument and argue against that and it drives us further apart. I mean I can I've so many examples of this what I'll put up a just talk about what we were just talking about saying, you know don't like fat loss is different when you quit calories protein and somebody will say though.
You can just eat Pop-Tarts all day and lose weight and I'm like, I don't know where ever said that like eating Pop-Tarts all day was a good
strategy for when picking. Yeah. We'll get back to talking to Lane in one minute. But first I need to tell you about Merrick health. I want to get my blood work done in America. And after I asked around I found out that Mary health is the most sophisticated and comprehensive service out there. I loved it so much that I actually reached out to the owner to partner with them because that's how much I believe in what they do. You might have heard that I took my testosterone from 495 2006 last year and that was done.
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The code modern wisdom at checkout for 10% off. That's ma rek health.com / modern wisdom and modern wisdom a check out. So two things that come to mind for that. There's an idea from evolutionary psychology called a failure of cross-sex mind-reading and it explains how men and women don't understand what the other is thinking from a mating perspective. So there's something called the over perception and under perception buyers on average men seem to think that women are more interested in them than they are and on average.
It's shocking. Yeah, I know shankara and on average women seem to think that men are less interested than they are. So when in a relationship you say, you know that your boss fancies you right to your wife and wife goes. No, you're being stupid. It's like fucking yes, he does right and I've I know that he does either of you could be wrong, but I would bet on the guy being right. Mmm, the woman that says like, you know that your girlfriend that said something like I don't think that Caroline's That Into You like no you don't you seen the way
Did she like looks at me and stuff just like she's just being friendly. It's like no no. No, you don't get any like you don't get it. I would rely on the woman with regards. Right? So the way that you see the world because of your biases the person that you are your unique Constitution, you use that theory of mind and poured it on to other people as well failure of her sex mind reading now, this is like a failure of cross diet mind reading because your diet worked for you you assume that it is the thing that will work for everybody else second point.
I think that one of the big reasons why diet is such a breeding ground for very vehement aggravating adversarial conversation is because implicit in your choice of diet is your health and downstream from your health is your longevity and downstream from that is when you're going to die. So I think that a attack on your diet is an implicit attack that you're going to die sooner. I think it reminds people. It's like a denial of death protection strategy.
Right that no. No, my thing is right. And if you attack that you're saying basically I've got it wrong and I'm close at moving myself closer to death or I could be moving myself more slowly to death if I changed it. Therefore. I'm there's a lot of existential passion that's tied up in that and then that kind of gets folded into a broader conversation of if you if I think that you're getting it wrong and you're popularizing a particular approach that this has a blast
radius where other people might do your thing, which is going to kill them more quickly. So I think that that from a psychological standpoint, there's definitely two elements in their failure of cross diet mind-reading and this sort of denial of death approach. I think that both of those are interesting another interesting element. I just had a conversation with Johann Hari who's written a book magic pill about the dangers of as a canned and where that might end up give me your opinion on these new glp-1 agonists.
Like as
a joke.
I think I have a very balanced take on this so.
If you look at the research data, I mean they work they work. They're very powerful appetite suppressants and people on average lose about 15 to 20 percent of their body weight people have concerns about thyroid cancer. Those studies are in rodents. We know that less than 50% of those studies can translate to humans. I think rodents also have a very special kind of receptor on their thyroid to humans don't have and I think that the dosage is that they're being given to the rats are also
Say hi. Yes. Well and this is what we could do a whole nother like section of how people cite studies and people have no way of knowing like whether it was even a relevant study versus something that was like a very relevant study that was done in humans, but they're so there's that and then there's that well people lose more lean mass. We have to worry about that.
If you look at the amount of lean mass that people lose while on Olympic or glp-1 mimetics. It's very similar to the amount of lean mass the people lose when they just do diet with no resistance training or exercise. And so these studies so far really haven't combine those and looked at by his mpix less resistance trying to correct.
there was a study looking at exercise plus those impact and then people getting off those impact that showed that exercise basically helps people maintain their weight loss from Olympic much better than people who didn't do
exercises a rebound effect in many of the studies about has empik when people
yeah, yeah and and not probably for the reasons that people think I should size is good for weight loss but not because of the calories burned because you really have to do a lot of exercise to get
a big calorie burn but what exercise tends to do is actually synthesized sensitize your brain to satiety signals. So there was a very classic study in Bengali workers done in the 1950s. And again, I'm a butcher the specifics but the Crux will be right. They looked at sedentary lightly active moderately active and heavily active like heavy labor jobs and then looked at how much do people eat so there was no intervention. They were just looking at how much did they eat? They found from lightly active to heavily out.
What if they pretty much perfectly compensated therefore increase energy expenditure by eating more but sedentary was dysregulated sedentary eight more than lightly active and I think more than moderately active. And so you had this j-shaped curve. So when you are sedentary the Research indicates that it may actually dis regulate your appetite signals. And so since many people are sedentary. Now, one of the things that glp-1 does if you listen anecdotally to people as they say it took the
The food noise out of my brain. I stop thinking about food so much and I think it may be having like kind of that effect that that you know, sensitizing us to society signals and glp-1 is a satiety signal in and of itself in the brain and also it slows down GI motility, which makes you feel more full. What are you worried
about?
So I think for obese people.
I mean honestly for a long time we have been waiting for this like when is the pharmaceutical industry going to come up with something that helps solve the Obesity crisis? It looks like they got it. Everybody's pissed off about it. I mean, I think my concerns are the following.
It still needs to be done with lifestyle intervention as well. Especially if people don't want to be on it indefinitely. So if people and listen, I'm not making a judgment towards people who decide that they're going to be on an indefinitely that's that is their choice and honestly, like despite the cost of it it if it gets people to lose the weight that it's been getting people to lose in the studies. It will save us tons of money. Now the government will probably go blow it somewhere else, but it will save us tons of money on
on Healthcare
I'm more worried on an individual level that if we are not instituting good eating behaviors and lifestyle change facilitated along with this that people will go from eating a lot of crappy food to eating a little crappy food. Yeah and still not getting enough dietary fiber still not getting enough protein and I think one of the things that happens is when you're not hungry protein is probably one of the last things you're actually reaching for and fiber is one of the last things you're reaching for.
Well, I am on board with people especially obese people using glp-1 memetics because it works and it will save us a lot of money and everybody's some people were like, oh these things have all these side effects. Honestly, the side effects are pretty mild. When you look at some of the other pharmaceutical drugs out there that have approval. I mean, I mean the thyroid things end up being a thing. Okay, but we have no indication of that in humans yet. The worst thing we're worried about is some people get nausea.
Have maybe have gastroparesis. There's there's some people have reported that but name me one really effective drug. That doesn't have side effects. I mean this is there for every give me there's a
gotcha. One of the big push bikes that Johan got in the episode that I did with him was basically this sort of like a kind of like a naturalistic fallacy. I think I'd like a naturalistic assumption. We are offering people an easy way out. Why?
Can't they just eat less and move more these fat fucks like you're supplementing sublimating willpower with this, you know external thing which is helping them to suppress the tighty and almost like kind of almost like they don't deserve to be thin. They don't deserve to lose the weight because they're not putting the work in. What do you say to those sorts of criticisms?
Why are you so lazy that you need a car to go to work?
Just walk there just take longer.
So I think
let me go back 20 years when I got to graduate school. I was very much of the opinion at that time that if you were obese it was because you chose to be in you were lazy and obesity as a choice. I think there is personal responsibility to change if you want to change.
But there is a lot more that goes into food than just this is a choice. This is food is a pervasive.
Theme throughout our entire Society. It's not just oh I'm choosing this or this it's this is how I connect with people. When was the last time you went to an event that didn't have food. When was like, do you just like go out randomly if your friends and sit around you go out and have a meal, you know, and so one of the other things were that breaks down as well when people go well, they just don't have enough willpower is I've met some really successful really smart people. Who were
Obese you're telling me they don't have willpower.
I mean maybe in that one area.
There's also a lot of really in shape shredded people who are in tons of debt.
What will happen with the willpower? Why isn't it translating because this stuff is more complicated than just a very black and white just one it more and if we look like a great example where I started to kind of change my mind on things is we all cope and Trauma with different ways. Some people become drug addicts some people become work addicts. In fact, I heard something once that I thought was interesting that that work addiction is the only thing that you
you can only kind of addiction you can have that you will be praised for right which actually makes it one of the most dangerous kinds of addictions because you can just justify it in perpetuity.
Some people maybe the gym to
yeah, some people get addicted to porn some people whatever have you right?
Some people they find comfort in food. And if you look at a study they did a study where they looked at obese women and found that obese women were fifty percent more likely to have some sort of sexual assault trauma in their
past. Yeah, they use the food as a protection strategy if I'm less attractive to the opposite sex. It's less likely just bigger. I'm yeah, I'm not going to be able to be as frail and fragile. Yeah, man, it's very interesting. I think very timely for Johan to release this.
Book there was definitely one of the things I was quite surprised about was I think it's some people accused him of basically doing an infomercial for example kick but there's he spends 12 different sections of the book twelve different risks that he's concerned about. So I need that there's I was I've cultivated an audience of people that are very agentic and like high sort of in personal sovereignty and I think that maybe this pushes back against a little bit of that narrative so that
Exactly a fully representative sample, but I was surprised by that, you know, we know that obesity is a big problem. Lots of people like no one has no person in their life. That wouldn't do from doing what my dad my dad would benefit from losing, you know, like 20 pounds 20, maybe maybe 40 pounds who would benefit from losing that way so I'm like, I don't know. I think it's to be seen side effects long-term use longitudinal studies. How can we tie this in as this dependency? It's this big farmer owning People's Health, but it's the same as the
Artificial sweeteners thing like look at what you are gaining versus what you are losing and to me your hands got this nice like a like a taxonomy. I suppose he says under 27 BMI. He thinks probably no real reason to use it 27 to 35 gray area. You need to re sort of think about it carefully 35 are over I think on balance. I'm not your doctor, but this is probably something which will benefit your health rather than hurting it and as I see
He's like a really well balanced approach. Well really well balanced means that bowls. Both extreme sides hate you unfortunately which is which he managed to do. Successfully. You just mentioned there about the importance of dietary fiber. Hmm.
What do you think about Carnival as a diet
speaking of extremes that hate you? Um, so I will give a devil's advocate argument for it that any diet that is going to get people to eat less processed foods and more filling satiating Foods is going to be a diet that does better than the standard American diet. So I have no doubt that there are people who go on Carnivore and they get healthier.
The question really becomes why did you need to do that? Could you do that and still have some dietary fiber and get the benefits of that and so I have had carnivores Carnivores carnist push back against me. So what dietary fiber is just it's just filler you don't even absorb it in fact in carnivore. I don't even poop as much because you know, I'm absorbing so
more nutrients and blah blah blah and I always find these really like Olympic level mental gymnastics interesting because it's not like we don't just have tons of studies in humans looking at this with actual hard human health outcomes and what those what the criticism of lot of these studies is because one of the downsides of nutritional studies is it's hard to do multi-year randomized control trials need a lock someone in diet jail.
Three years at a
time. Yeah. I mean I think people have this misunderstanding that there's just like this random pool of people that are test subjects for different studies that just sit there waiting patiently for the researchers to come get them and that's their life's purpose and it's like know there are people like you and me who see a flyer and go all try that and you know, a lot of them drop out why because the more controlled you try to make it the less likely people are to do it. I mean great example is people like why didn't they
do more studies and bodybuilders and I'm like because they suck his test subjects because what happens when you're a bodybuilder who gets randomize to the low protein arm of a protest. You're immediately dropping out, right? Yeah, or if you've got a bias if maybe you think a low-carb diets really good and you get randomized to a high carb diet see, uh, you know, so it's hard to do these for long periods of time and keep a level of control. So we have to rely on a lot of times.
Shorter-term randomized controlled trials looking at markers of Health that are hopefully predicting longer-term Health outcomes and long-term cohort studies. Now cohort studies are kind of an arm epidemiology. You have your cross sectional studies, which are we look at this population and this population?
Who has a greater rate of X disease and what differences do they have? Well, those are difficult because there's a lot of confounding variables cohort studies are a little bit better because what you're doing is you're tracking the same people over say 20 30 years. You're not doing any intervention, but you're seeing okay, these people ate more fiber versus these people and had this outcome. Now, what I will say is the reason I became quite convinced of the healthfulness of
dietary fiber is because if you are with a forest plot, so a forest plot this became famous because James Wilkes was on Joe Rogan debating the game changers a long time ago and kept bringing up a forest plot because the person he was debating didn't know what it was essentially if you have a meta-analysis of studies and you have a center line which means no effect. No overall effect of treatment and then on one side of the line You'll have favors X treatment.
The sidelines favors why treatment and then you plot each of the studies where they land. So if you have like this side is Faber's dietary fiber for decreasing cardiovascular disease mortality cancer. Literally every study is on this side positive. Yes, right, you might have something that like didn't show a significant effect or not a huge effect, but they're all on this side. I am not aware of any cohort study that showed fiber or fruits and
Abel's did not have at least a neutral and most of them show a very positive dose response effect on mortality cardiovascular disease and dose-response. So meaning if they do what's called a meta-regression. So they look at the different levels of dietary fiber intakes in these cohorts then try to compare that to the risk of mortality cardiovascular disease and cancer. They can basically say for example in one meta-analysis that was recent. I think it was with over a million subjects.
Yes.
For every 10 G increase in dietary fiber, there was a corresponding 10% decrease in the relative risk of mortality cancer and cardiovascular disease. Now before anybody goes. Well, I'm just gonna need 100 grams of fiber and a live forever. We are talking about relative risk and it's important to point out the difference, which a lot of people don't get when they hear these things reported on the news. So what I say at 10 percent decrease in the risk of mortality if we're looking at say and I'm just
Making up numbers here. But if we're looking at say a 60 old person and their risk of mortality in the next 10 years is 20% right? It's probably not probably different than that. But let's say it's 20% a 10 percent relative risk reduction is an absolute reduction of 2% because 2% is 10% of 20% So for every 10 gram increment of increased fiber, they showed a 10% decrease in the risk of these different diseases and mortality.
If there are other things that there are claims about like for example, people are carnivores so funny, they'll be like, why are you trying to you know discourage high quality animal protein consumption? I'm like sorry not to sound Kurt, but do you know who I am like have you done any like background on me? My research was funded by a lab was funded by the national Dairy Council the egg nutrition center and the national Cattlemen's beef Association if anybody has a bias towards High
A quality animal protein, it's me. I'm just not crazy. And when we look at say a great example is red meat. So even the who has categorized red meat as probably carcinogenic. I don't necessarily believe its carcinogenic based on the research that's out there and the reason is
a lot of studies don't show that its carcinogenic long as cohort studies don't see it
unless that who getting it
from well, I would say the over half of them do but some of them don't and if you look at the confounding variables of people who are high red meat consumption, it's not like we're talking about bodybuilders eating sirloin, you know, most of them are getting it from like process sources of red meat and red meat
One of the problems with these studies as well as if you are eating more of one thing you're typically eating less of another thing and actually red meat intake is actually quite a good proxy for poor diet quality. So there was a really good study from I think Maxim OVA in Canada, Alberta Canada in 2020, and they looked at trying to control for diet quality. So they did basically Turtle so three different levels of red meat intake with three different levels of
Fruit and vegetable intake and looking at the incidence of cancer and what they found was that at low intakes of fruit and vegetable intake. Yes, there was an association of high meat red meat intake with cancer, but at high levels of fruit and vegetable intake and high levels of red meat consumption the risk of cancer was actually lower than low red meat consumption with high fruit and vegetable consumption because people who are eating a lot of meat and a lot of fruit and vegetables there.
We're not eating a lot of low Quality Foods because you just don't have a bunch left in your diet. Yeah for that will get back to
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so is the primary concern or the biggest risk that you're worried about from carnivore low dietary fiber,
that's one and then a lot of them are choosing very fatty cuts of meat that are high in saturated fat and there is a big debate amongst diatribes about the weather saturated fat is bad for you because it raises LDL cholesterol, and there's a debate around
All the old cholesterol and I will give you the Devil's Advocate argument for that and then I will give you what the research says. So in 2005 when I was in grad school, I was in the camp of LDL doesn't really matter. It's more about the ratio of HDL to LDL the good cholesterol the bad cholesterol.
And if you look at the research studies, there was a lot of kind of.
Disagreement in the research literature and a lot of the randomized control trials didn't really show an effect of lowering saturated fat on the risk of heart disease. But here's the problem with randomized control trials is they're very short heart disease is not something that develops in two years. It develops in 40 years heart disease is not the difference between you dying at age 40 and age 80. It's a difference between you dying at age 80 and age 72 and so a lot of these randomized control trials are using I mean the, Minnesota Court
Experiment is one that gets cited by a carnivore people a lot pulse all Dino site to the lot and it was an impact in the big the strengths of it were it was impatient. They were psychiatric patients and they either fed them high poly unsaturated fats or high saturated fat diets and looked at the differences in heart attack rates or heart disease.
Now the what they don't tell you about that experiment is those people were not house consecutively the average duration of each subject of the subjects and that study which was two years and they were like, I think the average age was like mid-40s. It's not super common for people in their 40s to get heart attacks, even those who are inclined to get it and they were in and out of these psychiatric Wards. They weren't consecutively to and the polyunsaturated fat group included trans fats, which at the top now are largely out of the food supply but back.
Then were a big part of the food supply. So it's not really an experiment that carries a lot of weight. And again, it's only two years. It's hard to see differences. If you would I invest in a mutual fund. So with all the all cholesterol, you're looking at a lifetime exposure risk, really how much our courses through your arteries over the course of your life.
I like to compare it to investing if you and I invest in if you invest in a mutual fund that gets eight percent and I invest in one that gets nine percent if we look out in two years. I mean, I'll have a little bit more money, but practically you'll go it's no difference. But if we look out in 40 years, I'm going to have a lot more money than you. Right and so heart disease is kind of the same. It takes time to really see these differences and people are kind of overall say well, I feel great.
You can feel great right up until you have a heart attack like heart disease is not something you feel now. So looking at LDL cholesterol what really changed my mind on it because again, I was in that camp was what we called the mendelian randomization trials that started coming out around 2008 2009. Now mendelian randomization is where they look at your your body people's bodies naturally have like polymorphisms on jeans, so
So you'll have people who secrete naturally more or less LDL, but these polymorphisms don't affect other areas of metabolism. So what you have essentially is a great lifelong randomized control trial of people exposed to more ldl-cholesterol versus people exposed to less LDL cholesterol.
And when you look at that.
The exposure to Lifetime LDL cholesterol, you can basically draw a straight line through it between that and the incidence of heart disease and if we look at a mechanistic level LDL cholesterol, they have shown mechanistically penetrates the endothelium. It's actually not the LDL necessarily. It's the fact that it contains a protein called a piper protein B, which A lipoprotein D is what actually damages the endothelium and allows it to penetrate and then deposit the cholesterol there.
Now some people have said well, it's not LDL. You have to worry about the large LDL go about the small oxidized LDL know if you ever heard this this argument, it's a very popular argument. And so what is true is that small oxidized LDL can more easily penetrate the endothelium
But it deposits less total cholesterol large LDL does not penetrate it as easily, but it still penetrates it.
But it deposits more LDL or sorry deposits more cholesterol per LDL particle. The net effect is both are equally atherogenic and so
If it's funny I tell people when something aligns with our personal beliefs our level of skepticism is basically nothing when something opposes our personal beliefs. It's like this right are we just are so skeptical and so I tell carnivores all the time. If a red meat had the the data that fiber has behind it to support it being a health food. You all would lose your freaking Minds.
Anytime anyone even suggested that it might be bad for you, but because it doesn't align with your personal belief system, you won't hear a bar of it. What do you make of the meat and fruit trajectory that seems to be pulse a Latinos new thing that he's landed on meat and fruit and honey is another thing that I'm seeing and hearing a lot more. What do you make of this? I mean listen like I think
Fruits and vegetables are great make them eating fruit. Not for Yeah. Well, yeah because vegetables have toxins in them. By the way, you can find toxins and fruit to this is like the the influencer diet fear template to find an isolated chemical in a food and scare people with it. Um, I mean, I think it's I think it's better than just meat by itself. But I think what's interesting is when he when he said he went to fruit. He said he
Better because of an electrolyte perspective you felt better because you're eating carbohydrate now Paul and you have some muscle glycogen and liver glycogen and and you're feeling better doing exercise. There's not a ton of electrolytes in fruit or honey. Yes, the sodium transporter in the gut is co-transport with glucose. So yes, maybe you get a little bit more sodium transport, but like you're getting plenty of sodium like that's not a that's you not feeling better from
My perspective so I did think it was I applaud him for changing his View.
I also find it kind of.
After you've told people repeatedly for years at this is the optimal diet for human health while you were feeling bad. So I struggle with giving credit for that. I you know, I've interacted with Paul quite a bit. I'm sure she's a perfectly nice guy and I think he probably is trying to help I think the way he goes about it is relatively unhelpful. But yeah, I think if you go from eating just me to actually including some carbohydrate. Mm. I'm sure you'll feel better.
But I just find this entire Trope around toxins and food to be ridiculous.
What is someone's listening and says, oh I quite like eating meat. It's something that seems to work for me and bodybuilder. I struggle take my protein whatever dietary fiber sounds useful and important. What are the easiest best sources of dietary fiber that people can add into their diet right now.
I mean, I mean the data on fruits and vegetables
Is is great
either some fruits and vegetables that are better. Yeah, I
mean, you know, I don't like saying better or best or things like that, but I would say like berries are much more fiber dense than say like bananas. They tend to be also like lower carbohydrate berries are apples pretty good source, especially if you're eating the skin that contains a lot of the pectin vegetables of course cruciferous vegetables.
Are very hybrid ants so like broccoli cauliflower those sorts of things. But I mean, honestly, I think the average American gets 13 grams of fiber intake per day. And I mean if you look at the the drop-off and mortality from going from like 10 grams of fiber a day till like 20 or 30 grams of fiber a day you begin your fiber up. I mean, there are some kind of sources that you wouldn't necessarily think about that are good sources of fiber. I mean, this is going to get me in trouble because people going to say
I'm just a food shelf or the diet industry. But I mean whole grains there good sources of fiber and if you look at the data on whole grains mortality cardiovascular disease cancer again, you won't find any studies showing that there - for those things now people will say well you say people go out eat Lucky Charms not
You know I'm saying like oatmeal, you know some cereals that are like more intact sources of fiber. But again, I'm somebody who's like let's not let the enemy of good or better be Perfection. Right? And there's so much like Diet evangelism out there. Hey, if somebody eats a Serial that's fortified with fiber or some bread that's fortified with fiber.
Maybe not the best possible thing. They could do I would rather than get, you know fruits and vegetables. But if that's what they can do, that's what they can do. What about beans? Yeah legumes great source of fiber as well the come with some protein as well. Yeah. All those are great sources of fiber. I mean one that I use that is kind of non-traditional is air popped popcorn. I Love Popcorn and it's actually very very high in fiber. No, I yeah, yeah like you get a mosaic up but like a serving which might have like
T grams of carbohydrate will have anywhere depending on the particular brand and Source like 6 to 10 grams of fiber in it. And it's nice in that it takes a while to eat, you know, like
super high volume for
lower you can have, you know, you can have
50 grams of carbs from popcorn must be a fuck ton of
popcorn. That's big ol ball. Yeah, whereas like 50 grams of carbs from sweet potato. I mean you can eat that in three
minutes from Haribo. You can eat that in a minute. Oh, yeah. We'll get back to talking to Lane in one minute. But first I need to tell you about AG.
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such wisdom.
So I mean again like I'm all for like those non-traditional sources, but I would say like there's probably something to Mother Nature's kitchen
of talk to me about some other sleeper foods that you think, you know, you like eating this most people listening are probably going to need some blend of we go out for dinner. I get a combination of carbs fats and proteins in one form or another what are some of the things we go.
If you were able to switch this up for that on a typical sort of meal plate for someone that remotely healthy relatively higher trying to watch their diet. Here are a couple of little adjustments that you can make that I think of got a lot of bang for their Buck. What are some of the Top
Foods? Absolutely. I like I like what this is gone. First thing is, you know, if you can ask the waiter to just use less oil when they cook like that is one of the biggest sources of added calories. I mean, I was out at a restaurant last night that list their
he's on them
like the Cheesecake Factory.
No, no, but it was god. Dammit Lane Twin peaks' Twin Peaks. Don't got a Cheesecake Factory women don't like if you take them on dates there apparently. Have you seen the whole
thing, correct?
Well while ah, there's like a whole like Tick-Tock thing going around of like a water. I think it's a wet
rag that's ignites a red flag. If a woman doesn't want to go to
shit. I agree with you damn it. So but like that's oil. Yeah. I'm looking at the menu and it's like 1,200 calories.
For a salad and then you look down. Well, it's got bacon cheese nuts. It's got oil in it and then it's got the dressing right? So, okay.
Maybe say hey could you do a half portion of cheese or could you have portion of nuts? Could you leave off the bacon? Could you put the dressing on the side? Because a lot of times you don't like it gets doused in dressing right? Like you just do a little bit America. Yeah. I mean I do that for almost anything. Like I'll have a burger that has like I love like garlic aioli love that but I was asked for on the side right because I just need a little smear to get the taste. I don't need to be drenched in it. Okay. So looking at stuff like oils dressings reducing that.
At what else? What are some of the other things and then like when you're picking your cuts of meat, you know, if you want to get a steak, I mean things like filet sirloin tenderloin. Those are going to be much leaner than say your rib eye your T-bone your strip steak those sorts of things. And then when your white fish is going to be a very lean typically if it's grilled.
Chicken typically, very lean unless it's fried. And again just asking like hey, could you use a little bit less oil and when it comes to like carbohydrate sources, this is one of the ones where it's if you put rice on a plate the the view of 50 grams of carbs from Rice versus 100 grams of carbs. It's very tough to tell the difference, right? So what I
people is
This is where eating and food order can help you. So each of your proteins and vegetables first leave your starches for the last so that you're a little bit more full. So the new then you can rely a little bit more in your satiety signals, right and when it comes to vegetables you can ask for them steamed instead of having them cooked in oil or fried or whatever. It may be so you can do some simple switches and usually most restaurants at least in American if you lost Royer Europe in new may not be as accommodating but America, they're usually pretty accommodating.
And so you can make those small switches and it will make a big difference and even just like I think being a little bit mindful like if you're somebody who's trying to lose weight, like if you know, you're going somewhere for dinner do a little Recon look at the manual beforehand if you're curious about like, okay, what is a fattier kind of meat look up those different cuts of meat and see what the what the macros look like on it, you know, look at okay. Well, what do I think might be something? I want to try here.
And if you're you know, I think a good heuristic is if you want to have an alcoholic beverage don't have dessert, you know,
you get to pick one of the
two of you are you will have dessert don't have alcohol were the other thing. I tell people is if you could just stay engage with your own satiety signals are you eating because you're still hungry or you eating because you feel like you need to finish it because I can promise you the you're not paying for the food when you go out to eat.
You're paying for the experience because if you were just paying for the food, I mean you can go out on a McDonald's to get some stuff to taste great for five bucks. You know what I mean? You're paying for an experience so value the experience and if you're full don't feel the need to finish everything like be in tune with your own satiety signals. I think that is something that's really lost on a lot of people is just asking themselves. Am I eating this because
I feel like I should finish it because I paid for it.
Or am I eating this because I'm actually hungry and
I think that's very important. And this is one of the things that I like the evidence based movement. I like Meadow you dr. Mike, you know, it's a cool move there. Okay. Yeah, there are but one of the things that I think is really important, especially when were talking about diet died mechanisms conversations online is how to get things tactically down for like that. You know, you can throw studies at me all day about Lagoon.
Eames and dietary fiber and fucking LDL cholesterol, but okay cool. Mr. Science, man. What do I do when I go to Cheesecake Factory? What do I do? When I go to Dean's Italian downtown in Austin, like just tell me what like what's a good way to take all of this Research into something that's applicable and I like that presumably to being that we don't need the bread this evening. We'll just start with the meal is a good idea because that bread that bread. I don't know where it goes doesn't go to my stomach because it takes up no room it just
It's like a Harry Potter's fucking closet and it just disappears out the out somewhere.
Well, another thing is like show up not super hungry, you know, like make sure you had some filling Foods throughout the
day. This is a good one. So when you go shopping if you go shopping in a supermarket as opposed to ordering it online and you're absolutely starving hungry. When you go at the front of pretty much every Supermarket, there will be you know, sort of a to go fridge sandwiches and other bits and pieces.
Grab yourself a you know for dollar sandwich that's got a good set of macros on it and seems to be relatively well balanced eat that before you go shopping you're shopping bill is now just been chopped in half. That's the best for dollar investment that you can do because you're not you're hungry and you're walking around. Of course. I want that. I want this not have that will get that your oh, I just doubled all of the bullshit that I have in my cupboards and I didn't really need to
I'm big fan of ordering online now just because
I have like I just go back and I just reorder the same things every
week. So don't it's so good. It's so good. Alright, so going to the other side of the fence we've spoken about Carnival. Is it possible to build muscle on a vegan diet
great question. The answer is yes. Yes, you can build muscle on a vegan diet. It's
If your goal so I always have to like unframed it out of my mind frame, which is I want to be the most muscular strongest human being I possibly can and remember that not everybody is like that. In fact, most people aren't like that. They just want to build some muscle and look a little bit better and feel stronger. Sure. You can absolutely build muscle on a vegan diet. Now. Will it take a little bit more wherewithal probably is it the absolute best diet for muscle building?
It can be but you have to be more targeted with it in terms of making sure you're getting enough total protein and probably trying to pump your protein quality up a little bit for most people who are like if they're vegans and nobody bothers. Also, you're probably going to want to use some kind of isolated source of protein. It can be vegan protein, but you're going to want to probably use an isolated source of protein and the reason being that not only is vegan sources of protein typically lower and amino acids that are anabolic promoting.
Leucine which is the amino acid that's been shown to increase muscle protein synthesis. They also in intact sources of plant protein. It's not as bioavailable as an isolated source of protein like up like a protein powder for example, because some of the protein is bound up in the fibrous material of the plant now cooking can make it more bioavailable, but typically not nearly as much as like an animal protein or an isolated source of protein, but I'm
In really the big thing is if you're getting enough total protein, you know, say 2 grams per kilogram of body weight. I mean the research says that you're going to build as much muscle so you can the what I would say is it's just maybe a little bit more difficult, especially on like a calorie deficit because if you're especially if you're trying to do all intact sources of protein like whole food sources of protein because now you're getting the calories from protein along with calories from
Great.
Yes because they come along for the ride. You can't isolate them as effectively as a steak or a set of eggs. That's correct. What are your main concerns about somebody that's on a vegan diet.
I think the main concern is I have about pretty much any diet is if you if you do vegan the right way, it can be very healthy. Just like if you do keto the right way can be very healthy. We're using mostly unprocessed sources of food, but when you become a diet evangelist, it can become very unhealthy because you tie the identity to the vegan portion of that. And so I remember watching the game changers and they're talking about all the health-promoting effects of the vegan diet and then they're showing a
scene where they're like having them eat vegan chicken wings and vegan mac and cheese and I'm like
You're missing the point here. By the way, you like? Why are you trying to have it both ways here. It's either health-promoting. Now. I'm not saying you can never have fun foods like that or anything like that. Of course, like nobody should be worried about being 100% all the time, but
Just like without any Nuance to
that. Well, if the ideology is based around Whole Foods from nature natural, etc, etc. And then you try to recreate your version of the very food that you're trying to run away from our disparage right that seems to sort of turn the bottle upside
down and Kira does the same thing like there's that we've seen where like the ketogenic diet is not Superior for fat loss if you're quitting calories and protein we
Really tightly specific studies looking at that like metabolic War trials looking at that now, there's keto ice creams and have more calories than regular ice creams. It's like then how do you like you're missing the point here? Like the whole point is if you do keto where you're eating like a lot of filling satiating Foods, you're going to eat less calories and you'll lose body fat. Do you really think a keto ice cream is going to help you facilitate that like know if you want a treat, but just get the regular ice cream if you want to treat.
you know, it seems to me with the with the vegan diet that
It is practically a little bit more complex to eat it. Well than most other diets. I have a bunch of friends who have gone vegan for a variety of reasons and were you know evangelists for that but said in retrospect after stopping look, I'm sure that a well-balanced vegan diet can give you everything that you need but the level of hurdles that I needed to overcome in order to be able to hit the macronutrients. I wanted to get to it was so restrictive that I really found that quite
Todd I'm not sure if the same would be said for other diets.
Yeah. I mean, I think we're all I actually had this kind of like discussion where he was kind of like well couldn't you make that argument for getting of dietary fiber on saying omnivore diet because you're eating more meat you're eating less fiber by default. I think any diet needs to have some mindfulness behind it. I think the thing with veganism is if you are being really strict with it.
There are things that might show up that are just more apparent which like so for example, I'm on the board. I maybe you're not eating as much fiber but you're not going to feel that difference really quickly. If you're not getting enough vitamin B12 or iron you're going to feel that pretty quick. You'll do well in a few months, right because you're going to have way less energy. You're not going to feel great. But again, I think one of the tropes that I've really tried to get away from with people is like hey, you can supplement it's okay, you know, like just like round it out.
Out like if you're worried, you know and it's like it's funny because I had a carnivore kind of argue like well, you couldn't eat just this food and get everything you get from steak. I'm like, why do I need to pick one food or one food group to just eat that to justify a diet that seems like a false dichotomy to be right and that's what you find with. A lot of these diet tribes is they have to like force these really like black-and-white scenarios to make their argument work.
And you know, one of the things that science is like it's not really Occam's razor, but you know Occam's razor is basically like all things being equal the hypothesis that requires the least amount of assumptions is usually true which laymen translated is the simplest answer is usually true.
Also the hypothesis that requires the most stringent protocols to prove it to be true is the flimsiest hypothesis and usually not because
you're making arbitrary rules that fit your particular priors, right? Okay. Go what about soy the soy make you soy should we go boy? Yeah, it should it should we worry about sorry,
so there was actually like I think two men analyses done now in men looking at testosterone showing that at least with a few servings of soy sauce.
Per day no effect on testosterone or estrogen. So at least admit it doesn't appear to do much now and I don't want to get this wrong my scientific friends. If I butcher it. Please feel free to comment on this in I believe premenopausal women. It has been shown to have an effect on some sex hormones.
But I don't know if it's a good bad or
neutral. So it's so you go that we actually need to be worried about not sigh boy
apparently, but in men doesn't seem to have an effect at least in the you know, two to three servings per day range,
you've mentioned it a couple of times today. I hate this word thrown around on the internet all the time. What the fuck's bioavailability
ha ha ha.
So basically if you ingest
A certain amount of a certain food how much of that of the nutrients from that wind up in circulation? Which nutrient you're talking about?
All right. Is it as big of a deal as everyone makes out
so like let's take protein for example, right. So if I'm looking at protein bioavailability and I take in 25 grams of say a protein Source how much of that 25 grams actually hit circulation how much gets absorbed through the intestinal Lumen. That's really what we're talking about when it comes to bioavailability.
And so it does matter. I mean again like we're looking at like if you look at certain plant sources of protein, they could be 50 60 70 percent by available on the intact platform. Like I said cooking they make take that up a little bit more. Whereas if you're looking at animal sources of protein, they're usually like 90% And up eggs eggs are very absorbable when they're cooked. Whey protein very bioavailable. I believe it's almost 100%
If you looked at blg protein beta lacto globulin this stuff so cool, dude. So soccer players in Europe are using this at the moment. It allows you to get 20 grams of protein in a hundred mil shot.
So it's must be very
soluble Ultra Ultra concentrated. And the reason that they're giving it to athletes that are doing a like I guess power endurance are like intermittent charger work.
Precisely you are training for 4 hours a day, but you don't want to have to sink 400 mL of liquid to get your protein in you can put 200. ML and get twice as much protein as you would have been really interesting. I think it's like it's just an area that I'm kind of keeping an eye on a little bit that beta lactone globulin stuff seems to be really interesting. So related to bioavailability another sort of hot buzz word that's being thrown around at the moment is the gut microbiome. Hmm. How much should people be
On it. Is it really the beginning and end of all disease the gut brain axis. Is it causing all of our autoimmune disorder? Like what do you make of the sort of current fewer or around the microbiome?
I think Micron super interesting. We have more bacterial cells in our body than we do eukaryotic cells, but if you talk to microbiome experts and the there was a gal in the lab where I did my PhD who's doing her master's at the
the time who is now a PhD in her Specialties microbiome. She's considered one of the foremost experts on it name is Suzanne Dakota when you talk actually talk to gut microbiome experts. They're basically like yeah, we got a lot of data. We don't really have a good idea of what it all means. And so basically when you talk to them when you read the scientific research, we seem to know a few things. The first is that fiber is good for the gut microbiome. It's the main fuel for
We think the beneficial species of bacteria are and diverse array of fibers and a diverse diet seem to be beneficial for the gut microbiome eating too many calories appears to be not beneficial for the gut microbiome. Now, we don't know again. This is where is it the cart or the horse? What I think is likely and again, I am tenuously speculating but when you have excess at a paucity
and metabolic dysfunction, you know large adipocytes secrete more at the pecans which are inflammatory cytokines secreted by the adipose tissue, they seem to screw up a lot of stuff perhaps that's having an effect on the gut microbiome
just being fat does lots of things Downstream, but you don't want to do to your
body, but also the diet that
Makes you become obese is probably not a high quality diet. And so that may negatively impact the gut microbiome.
How much is overeating contributing to that quicker gut motility that you're sort of running things through the gut very quickly.
I actually don't know the answer that
so this is one of the things I have a friend who's on to Zappa tide, which is the 2nd gen. Yeah, the glp ones. Yeah, and he always struggled with sibo with your gut.
I'm things and his current working theory is that because he's basically eating less and moving food through his system less quickly that it's giving his got more time
possible hard to know that's like I said, I always tell people if you want to know who like really actually knows what they're talking about. No, somebody who's willing to say, they don't know. Yeah when it comes to something
what else microbiome what else haven't we covered
so diverse array of fibers exercise.
Apparently appears to be very good for the gut microbiome. So they think it has something to do with the lactate production from exercise that that appears to have a beneficial effect on the gut microbiome and then maybe saturated fat may have a negative effect on the gut microbiome not necessarily because of the saturated fat itself, but because of the end bile products that from saturated fat consumption those appear to possibly be toxic to some sorry toxic.
To some species of beneficial bacteria in the gut microbiome, but that's kind of what we know and people have run. I mean it is so when I see gut microbiome in someone's Instagram bio. Usually my first thought is this person's full of shit vaginal health expert. Yeah often one that that and there was someone who I met a couple of months ago in Austin who uses like
Astral tapping into the 5th Dimension to inform her crypto Investments. That was that was a particularly interesting day.
Well, this is what people struggle like going kind of meta real quick. This is what things people really struggle with online is
there's so many experts that have credentials and I'll tell people I'm like usually if you go and like okay, this person has been coming to my diet or chiropractor naturopath there, you know psychiatrist when it like expertise does not translate across disciplines.
I'd always listen to your idea about how to fix the Ukraine or the
Border. Yeah, like like somebody was like, are you going to comment on Israel and Palestine? I'm like absolutely
not. Why what are they eating?
Yeah, like like no this
isn't efficient and
Particular nutrients
is not my area of expertise. I know that they don't like each other and if not liked each other for a long time. That's about the extent of what I know about it, you know, the the I think war is bad. Well, I'll say that, you know spicy. But but all you need to do is go to
this is another question. I've asked myself a lot. Why do really smart people believe really dumb shit sometimes because
People of code means that well Lane this person does this and look like or Elon Musk. Does this or like people who are intelligent very intelligent people look up Google Nobel Prize syndrome and you will find a laundry list of unequivocally some of the smartest people in the history of mankind who changed site like one of the people who discovered DNA
and a laundry list of these people believed in things like astrology and Eugenics healing crystals.
No, it's muted for like the last three decades of his life. No Alchemy adamant. The Alchemy was
we're talking about the guy who invented calculus on a dare before age 26 like invented a whole field of mathematics because somebody was like, no you can't prove that and he was like watch this bitch like yeah, so some of the smartest people
Apple experts expertise does not translate across
disciplines speaking of expertise. What's your thoughts on Gary
braca?
um
I'm sure she's a perfectly nice person. His claims are pretty wild
which ones do disagree with
most? Well, I've seen him as a a video of like 82 percent of the amino acids from whey protein are converted to carbohydrate or fat. I don't know where he got that number. I don't know where it comes from and there is nothing to back that up. It would not be I mean that that you can't even make that claim without understanding some
Buddy's diet on a holistic level because 82% in what context like if I give them 100 grams of whey protein 82% is going to get converted to carbohydrate or fat. Like how are you measuring that like what isotopic labeling study? Are you doing to support this because you would need that and over what period of time because that label would be recycled as amino acids are broken down and recycled between various processes in the body. So like what he's saying
It would be almost impossible to even measure that I'm not saying it's impossible. But you would be measuring in a very specific framework of this much protein in this period of time looking at these tissues using these isotopic labels. He did manage to get Dana White to lose a lot of weight though. Right? Well, I think so Dana actually comment on one of my post and got really mad and I actually like Dana like I've watched the UFC for a long time and he's a smart guy.
I think Dana's interpretation of what I said was that I was saying his results weren't real. That's not what I'm saying. Dana White obviously did a great job changed his lifestyle, but he looked he got healthier because he lost 30 40 pounds He adjusted his lifestyle exercise consistently probably stop drinking if he was drinking before. I don't know about his habits there but like he should be getting the credit for that. Not from
like
grounding with electric rugs and red light therapy, which there may be some benefits to red light therapy, but
didn't look at the proposed or the protocol that magicians Dana White's weight loss. What was it?
I'm not super familiar with the complete protocol. But I mean, I know there was like infrared light and Cole plunging. And again, I think one of the like he's some of the cold plunge claims have been pretty extreme. Like you said there's
Nothing on the surface of the Earth will burn fat faster than cold water. This is Gary. Yeah, simply not true. It's just demonstrably not true. Like if we look at the studies where people do cold water, they the most of them show no effect on energy expenditure. None of them show an effect on fat loss that I've seen and the absolute best that you see is like an increase of like 100 calories and energy expenditure in a day.
a for like an hour or two of exposure and pretty cold water like
Okay.
Okay, and people say well we'll see. Okay, but that's not that's not the fastest way to burn fat. Okay, the fastest way to burn fat is to get the gym or eat less and the other thing is actually won something that exercise in cold water. So I know he's on my cold plunging, but he talked about Michael Phelps and eating so many calories first off. I don't believe that Michael Phelps was getting 10,000 calories a day. No disrespect to Michael but he's in the pool for like eight hours when we have this time to eat 10,000 calories 10,000 calories for nobody's ever done.
That is a unbelievable amount of food.
Have you ever tried to do at ten thousand calorie
challenge know I've gotten to like 6,000 calories in a day and that like it was insane. I was insane and but one thing that exercise in cold water will be reliably doing studies is significantly increased appetite. So there's actually quite a few studies to show that it raises appetite. So it may not be a great fat loss tool actually now again people
Will say well, I like cold plunging.
By all means do it. I mean there do seem to be some benefits for inflammatory markers and some people say they feel more better more cognitive cool. But like why do why can't we just say I like doing this thing instead of like creating this whole narrative around it and what you're also doing is people will view this and it makes Fitness feel really inaccessible to them because like well, I don't have a cold plunge. I don't have a cold plunge. I don't have red light therapy. Uh, no, no just like adjust your dietary habits and
Because that's what caused a need to get healthy like and again full credit to Dana. He should get full credit. He likes he likes
fucking he looks great.
Awesome. Yeah, it looks great. Yeah, and as somebody who probably has a very very demanding hectic lifestyle that's not an easy thing to achieve. So my thing is no he deserves more of the credit than this
other stuff the magic from that
and then some of the other things he said was like, you know, you only store you'll have 20 minutes of glycogen and then your
Out of energy and your your what happens when you have no, I think he said what happens when you have no glucose in your in your no glucose in your blood stream and I did a video response. I'm like your dad when you have no glucose in your blood stream. I'm at I think he means probably like a baseline level of glucose, but still there's just some things that are said that I'm like, there's no real great understanding of some of these some of the biochemistry
Here, would you debate him for sure for sure. I think like the like nothing you said is you start to you start to liquefy lean muscle in three minutes, so
I think based on nitrogen balance studies as well as actual like studies looking at loss Progressive loss of lean mass from D training and things like that at best you start to see like a loss of nitrogen from the body in a day or two, but that's not necessarily like showing lean mass loss. You really need like
days and weeks to start seeing loss of lean mass. So the idea that we're just like, you know, 20 minutes your through all your glycogen and now your body's just chopping away at your muscle. That's not super
accurate similar to that how big of a deal is insulin more people continuous glucose monitors, you know, it doesn't matter if you're a mom of three you got to wear the thing and check and all the rest of it. How much of a vector for health
his
insulin
Baseline levels of insulin and measures of insulin sensitivity like Homa, ir and hba1c hba1c is probably the for like long-term looking at long-term metabolic health and blood glucose regulation hba1c is probably one of the best metrics and the reason is hba1c is glycosylated hemoglobin. So certain positions of hemoglobin can be glycosylated. So a glucose molecule can get added to it. And so
I think it's something like, you know, the actual percentage is like six less than 6% is what you want and probably closer to like five but what's nice about that is red blood cells take about 90 to 120 days to turn over. I think that's it at several months. And so your you can see like short-term changes in basal levels of blood glucose or like glucose responses to things but hba1c
These are going to actually give you a really good idea of what like your long-term exposure to glucose is and how sensitive you are to insulin because it doesn't turn over very quickly and because it's sensitive to how much concentration is in the bloodstream over time.
So
insulin in response to normal feeding is not something we need to be worried about in my opinion.
Long-term basil elevations in insulin are what we should be
worried about. What would that be due to typically
up usually from insulin insensitivity that usually caused by excess body fat and obesity. Now people will say well glucose is toxic in the bloodstream and you're going to clear it out and whatnot the problem with looking at these short-term glucose responses and trying to equate them to long-term health is
if we're going to play that game I can make a compelling argument that you shouldn't eat fat or protein because you don't want to eat fat because fat and plea impedes flow mediated dilation, which is a risk factor for cardiovascular disease so high fat meal will impede flow mediated dilation the you can go look up these studies do need protein because protein stimulates him tour and mtor is elevated in many cancers. So what are we supposed to do eat ice cubes and photosynthesize? So you're looking at the difference between State and trait. So this is something
that a lot of scientists don't even distinguish between there is a massive difference between acute truncated short-term normal responses versus long-term dysregulation. Let's just take an example of exercise if I told you if you didn't know about exercise, let's say exercise didn't exist. You have all the other you have all the other knowledge that you have about.
The body but you don't know anything about exercise that I said Chris. I'm going to make you do something that is going to raise your heart rate, raise your blood pressure raise your inflammatory markers, raise your reactive oxygen species and raise your cortisol. What would you tell me now? Exactly exercise does all those things in the short term what happens in the long term the opposite actually happens. So that means we can't use short term.
Measures to predict long-term outcomes. We have to look at long-term outcomes and see what the difference is. So we look at insulin. Okay, I'm thinking of a few different studies here. First of all, let's just take fat loss. Right? Some people will say the low-carb Trope is what you can't lose body fat if insulins. Hi, this is usually the they've like read one page out of the biochemistry book and closed it and said, nope. Got got all I need which is insulin.
Abbott's lipolysis and decreases fat oxidation
So lipolysis is the process of liberating stored body fat from adipose so they can be available for fat oxidation insulin inhibits both those processes because when carbohydrate is high you have to burn carbohydrate. This is part of the Randall cycle and that's you're going to be preferably oxidizing carbohydrate and not dietary fat when insulin is low. You're going to be not oxidize a lot of dietary carbohydrate because it's not available be oxidizing a lot of dietary fat so
So shouldn't that mean that low-carb diets cause more fat loss and I just talked about how they didn't. Well, how is that possible because you're only looking at one side of the equation so much like protein metabolism. The net gain or loss of prote of lean mass is the balance between protein synthesis and degradation. So you have to have synthesis running at a greater rate relative rate than degradation to accumulate lean mass.
Body fat loss or gain is the balance between the amount of fat you store versus the amount of fat you burn. So let's look at these different diets on a high carb low fat diet.
You will not burn much fat, but you also don't store much fat because if we look at metabolic Chaser studies where they give labeled carbohydrate and look at where that label lines up less than 2% of dietary carbohydrate is stored in adipose tissue is body fat over 98 percent comes from fat. So if you were eating a low-fat high-carb diet, you're not burning much.
Fat but you're also not storing much fat if you're eating a low-carb high-fat diet, you are burning a lot of fat, but you're also storing a lot of fat. What is going to determine the net deposition in either case will be energy balance good old calories in versus calories out. That sounds like an argument for low carb low fat high protein.
Yes, but that's just it that's just typically called low-calorie. Right? Because like it's hard to over-consume a lot of protein but then the downsides are for fat loss. Okay, if you're not eating much carbohydrate or fat you are going to have a lot of protein oxidation and you don't want to lose weight probably too quickly because it could tap into your fat store your your lean mass tours. And we also know that the benefits of protein kind of tap out at a certain level. So you're also if you're
Training for your own performance benefits. You probably want some carbohydrate as well and carbohydrate is protein sparing as well. But again it really boils down to like which do you prefer and can execute on a long-term basis now in terms of overall health there have been a few studies looking at, you know, kind of lower carb versus lower fat whatnot, and essentially
They in the long term they show that if you lose similar amounts of Weights similar, if you lose some amount of weight on low carb or slow fat your improvements of metabolic Health are very similar. They showed this the diet fit study. They showed this in a meta-analysis in 2014. I believe the citation is now tied at all where they looked at like cardio metabolic risk factors and basically balanced diets versus low.
Carb diets that were acquainted in calories and basically it's all that they were equally good and improving metabolic health. So I'm not really worried about insulin and even on a more granular level. They have done studies looking at where they've actually measured insulin or like c-peptide which is a proxy for 24-Hour insulin and seen like even 50% greater overall insulin and still lose the same amount of fat and calories are acquainted.
Going to get Tactical for a second mentioned a few things and I would like tangible tacit takeaways that people can have for stuff like this. Are there any things small additions to Lifestyle the way that people eat the way that they heat or store food any of these different bits and pieces where you think these have a lot of bang for their Buck? What are the best nutrition size sort of diet hacks that you
Think this has been a high return to me.
Okay. So livestock is a livestock whatever you want activity even like if people knew the disgustingly small amount of exercise you needed to get health benefits from it. They would not be so worried about starting. I think a lot of people will look at somebody like me and you I think I don't want to go to the gym for an hour or two hours every day. You don't have to there was actually a study done where they looked at four minutes.
A vigorous activity per day. Okay, and it didn't have to be consecutive. It could be broken up into like little bits for minutes decrease the risk of cancer incidence by 20% and I think when they got up to like 10 minutes, it was something like 30 or 40 percent decrease in the risk of cancer. What's a vigorous exercise basically? Like I actually don't recall the actual specific of that study, but I think it was like getting your heart rate above like 154 like that period of time some pretty high.
Yeah, pretty high steps like if you look at like when you're doing stuff, like if you're listening to a podcast or watching a show just walk or get a if you do have a treadmill like if you can go outside go outside one, we've already talked about activity sensitize you to satiety signals. So your diet is going to work better. If you're active Okay and steps are so easy to get in through a lot of different mechanisms. Now if you're somebody who sits at a desk job
And you really can't move? Okay, then maybe you're somebody who needs to incorporate some of the more short bursts of physical activity when you're off work to get the benefits from it, but for a lot of us, you know, we work from home you can get a standing treadmill where you're just kind of like walking in a half mile per hour per day or just like while you're listening to something or like what I do, for example, like when I go do my social media content for the day today, I went out went down by the
river walk for an hour. Well, I'm posting my social media content. I'm getting work done and I'm getting some activity and the drop-off in mortality from going for like two thousand which is like sedentary steps per day to 8,000. It is like a linear reduction in the risk of mortality. I don't think there's anything magic two steps. I think it's just a proxy for activity,
right? Okay, so get most steps in and also get active get active in terms of vigorous
exercise because of the benefits.
It's of it and the effects on society now diet-wise one big one. I shall give you to one big one. Stop snacking.
In the the studies where people lose weight and keep it off. One thing that commonly pops up is they do not snack and it's one of the reasons that in dietary recall studies people routinely under report the nutritional intake because people remember their meals they don't remember their snacks and they've shown that snacking has less impact on satiety than meals even calorie per calorie and a lot of it is around mindfulness because when you're sitting down to a meal
you'll you're sitting and you're more engaged with that meal. They've shown that people who think about the food they're eating and enjoying each bite that they get a greater level of satiety from that food. This may sound weird but like smaller dinner plates people eat less with smaller dinner plates because it looks bigger Chopsticks Chopsticks. You'll slow down you'll feel more satiated because a lot of times and if
a small of folk,
but yeah,
I don't know the study specifically but I bet it would but you know a lot of times it just takes time for our satiety signals to catch up with what were actually doing. But if you're shoveling down a bunch of food in five minutes, I mean, do you really think your satiety signals have had a chance to hit you to let you know. Hey, we're full.
Well, that's what competitive eaters actually try and do right the overwrite that put the food in so quickly that it hasn't got to the point. Where wait. Whoa. What the fuck you doing? Yeah.
So and again like snacks are typically something we're doing.
Doing when we're like watching TV or were like grabbing something as we're walking out the door. We're being unmindful. I mean
and the other thing is if you've never done it just for one week. I'm not saying do this again for the rest of your life for one week way out every single thing you put your mouth just weigh it out and track the calories and I think for a lot of people it'd be like the first time you did your budget and look what your expenses are going you like. Wait what the I'm spending how much on eating out every week the
same as when you track your sleep for the first time. Yeah. It's the exact same.
What's crazy is a lot of times this happens on a particle level if we monitor something it changes Behavior, right? The Heisenberg uncertainty principle. We found that when we monitor particles they change their behavior, when you monitor people guess what happens they change their behavior, but a very a very classic study nutrition because you'll everybody says well I low calories and I can't lose weight.
I I think a lot of people think they eat low calories and really believe it.
A classic study nutrition from 1992 they had people who were self-reported weight loss resistant who were reportedly eating 1200 calories a day going to a metabolic Ward and they gave them W labeled water. I believe which basically the researchers will be able to track how much energy they were expending and how much they were consuming and I think they even told the participants will know if you're if you're not telling the truth and
I think I heard a story somewhere from one of the researchers. I could have butchered it. But I think they actually said some of the people argued with them afterwards about what they're eating even though they were monitored and the they reported they were eating 1,200 calories a day the average Under reporting. The study was 50% the underreported by over 50% their calories, they were consuming and they over reported their physical activity by 47% and I think a lot of people
Will interpret that as an attack and saying that people are lying, I don't think that people in the cellulite. I think that most people have a very poor understanding of what a true serving size looks like and if you ever want to be depressed go away out a serving size of peanut butter or a serving size of ice cream or a serving size of cereal and you will realize that oh, I was having a bowl of ice cream, which is actually 4 servings.
I was having a scoop of peanut butter that's three servings. I was having a bowl of cereal that was three and a half four servings. And so you really do you think you're eating low calories?
When in reality you're not and so I think that could be really instructive for people again. I'm not saying like listen, I still way my food. Like I have a food scale at home.
It's not a big deal for me. I'm used to doing it. I do it when I have access to it, but I don't have access to it. I don't really worry about it. And the one thing it did by doing that for so long as I know serving sizes. Yeah, you know for the most part I can eyeball stuff. I have essentially maintained my body weight, which I walk around about 208 pounds and I compete at 205 in powerlifting and we have to our weigh-ins so you got to weigh in and then you're lifting in two hours. So you can't really cut a bunch of weight and maintain your performance.
I'm pretty lean at this body weight and it does require like some some work for me to maintain it. But I've maintained it for almost five over four years now and it's not difficult for me and I would say I'm only weighing probably half the time because a lot of times I travel I'm not taking my food
and what you've done is you've spent so much time being specific with the weighing that that's now become your new Baseline for
intuitive. Well, and also I stayed with some friends who are
There's a while back and she was doing her degree in Psychology. And she was very focused on food behaviors. And she was like, I thought it was she's like Lanes really interesting because when he was in control of his meals like a breakfast, she's like he ate egg whites, you know, it was very low calorie. But when we you and out and people got dessert he still like dessert with everybody. He like, you know had some fun Foods whatever and just through
I didn't even realize I was doing it but just through sheer kind of force of habit.
I've gotten to the point where especially when I'm traveling the meals I can control by default. I make them low calorie and high protein because it's more satiating and it gives me room that like when I go out to dinner tonight my bread. Yeah, I or I can have a burger or I can have something that's a little bit more and I have room in my budget for that but a lot of people wake up and they have you know pastries and then for lunch they have a big footlong sandwich. That's you know, another thing.
Thousand calories and then for dinner, they're having you know, whatever else or having the choose be loaded in oil and starchy carbohydrate. And you know, I put this up one time. I was like, you know, the average amount of physical activity in this country is less than 20 minutes per day and the average caloric intake is 3,500 calories and we think we're worried about seed oils and artificial sweeteners like
You guys are focused on some Pebbles when we need to be worried about the really big rocks. You know what I mean? Like so many people get hung up on little stuff and don't even think about the really large rocks that they need to be paying attention to
I saw a study last week that says American adults spend on average eight hours and 15 minutes a day on screens and six hours and 30 minutes
of sleep.
I saw that I saw your post about that wild.
Okay final final element of the Tactical stuff.
What are supplements that everybody should have in their stack on average? Do you think what are the supplements that really
work? Okay, so I kind of like Branch these into like tears right? So my Mount Rushmore of supplements would be creatine monohydrate. We number one
dosage
frequency 5 grams a day. There may be evidence that like 10 or even maybe a little bit more has cognitive
benefits Tim Ferriss speaking about
that. Yeah, so
So it's very safe. I mean, there are people who have been hand-wringing about creatine for a long time. And that the worst thing that you can say about is people say well causes hair loss know there was a single study in 2009 that sowed creatine supplementation increased DHT that is not the same thing as showing hair loss. DHT is a marker and that is a mechanism. Now that's never been replicated and they didn't show a viable mechanism by which it does it because
The the the their testosterone levels didn't change which is the precursor and then the input the the product after DHT didn't change. So either creatine is having some direct effect on this enzyme or this is a data artifact that has not been replicated. I tend to lean towards the ladder. So created monohydrate increases lean mass improves strength.
Improved performance improves cognitive performance. It has been shown to have a similar effect on depression as ssris. I'm not saying for people to do is
create a ssris and switch it out for Christ.
Just saying that this seems to have some really ubiquitous benefits. So and even like some of the more disease States we're starting to see some benefits for creating some Plantation. So I'm not saying everybody should be on it, but it is a low cost.
High yield supplement that is very safe. And we're not talking about a couple studies. We are talking about thousands of studies done over decades in Labs all over the world. I am very confident now caffeine caffeine is the original nootropic. It is the original performance enhancer. And if you look at the benefits of caffeine increases cognitive performance increases exercise performance down.
Sides negatively impacts sleep. So we're going to take it do it early in the day preferably know what you've got a
podcast. Yeah, you know what one of the wildest Things is whoop release a aggregated set of that data the end of ETO and on whoop, you can track behaviors and it will correlate those behaviors with outcomes that you get HIV resting heart rate. Sleep sleep quality duration blah blah blah one of the best predictors of good recovery and sleep.
With caffeine interesting. Yeah, so that and that's like interesting hands of thousands of people that's interesting. So this could be a case where you know, there's confounding variables of perhaps people who are taking in more caffeine or exercising harder and that's helping them get better sleep, right? That's interesting. So there's obviously like, I mean, we know based on the mechanistic human randomized control trials that caffeine negatively impacts sleep. I wonder what about is there a potential that you've got kind of like a healthy user bias here with
People that doing whoop there probably know that you've got a 9-hour half-life for caffeine. So maybe that pumping a couple in the morning and then by the time they get to an evening time that adenosine is
yeah. I mean, I think what's probably the most likely outcome is some sort of healthy user bias with people who are using wearables also taking a lot of caffeine probably more likely to exercise and have other healthy lifestyle
behaviors, but why would eat all of the people that are using whoop are using whoop like it's interesting.
It's something I might try and reach out to the guys and get a little bit more data. I could send that to you. Alright, so creatine caffeine for caffeine couple questions. First off. There's no real like Optimal dosage. But what do you think about when it comes to dosage what you think about when it comes to timing? And what do you think about when it comes to dependency?
So
Obviously early in the days can be better for Sleep based on what we know as far as dosage. I mean you get some anti-fatigue benefits like 1500 mg. You get start to get the performance benefits. Once you get around to 300 milligrams of caffeine, like for exercise strength benefits, like a cute strength benefits are more like three to six hundred milligrams you can see right. So I mean, I'm I'm a pretty big fan of caffeine and before the meet on Saturday. I'll probably have about
A nice five 600 mg shot right at the beginning and I'll probably have a 200 mg boost which I'm lifting in prime time at 6 p.m. So I probably won't be sleeping real great that night, but that's okay. It's just one night. So yeah for the more like standout kind of performance benefits, you know, you gotta get a little bit higher dosage dependency. Yeah. I mean you can definitely get I mean, there are absolutely caffeine withdrawal symptoms I go through them whenever I start tapering off.
For me because I'll usually taper down to I used to completely cut it cold turkey and I just found that that was intolerable. So I go down to about 100 milligrams a day because actually the other thing people don't realize and I found them like when I cut out caffeine completely I started like feel like aches and pains and stuff. It's actually a slight analgesic. It has a slight analgesic effect and I started getting all these like like feeling why am I like having like back pain that I haven't had before there's other things.
When I just went down to college 100 milligrams a day to kind of just maintain I noticed that stuff went
away. All right, Christine caffeine
one other thing to add you can completely reset your caffeine tolerance in about a week if you go cold turkey, but you're going to feel pretty miserable for a couple days. It's I mean, I thought it was I thought it was a placebo thing. And then I Janet and I was like, why does my head hurt and why am I so freaking tired? And then my ex was like you haven't had caffeine in two days, duh?
Like Oh, yeah, duh creatine caffeine whey protein whey protein tasty relatively cheap soluble been shown to improve body composition numerous times. It's not magic. It's just a very tasty kind of ubiquitous form of protein. That's highly bioavailable. So I put it on my Mount
Rush isolate concentrate
concentrates perfectly fine. In fact, it may be some benefits to concentrate in that it has some of the
Some of the components that positively influence glutathione and antioxidant status but a lot of people don't tolerate a pure concentrate well because there's lacked there's quite a bit of lactose in it and some people have sensitivities to elect albumin sin way away Iceland is going to basically eliminate the lactose. So if you have any kind of lactose sensitivity, most people tolerate whey isolate like my
company outward nutrition the protein we saw was away. I slit people like his exact because it's more anabolic than concentrating like no, we just want to make sure that almost anybody could use our protein. It is more expensive typically mixes better too. So there's just there's trade-offs we concentrates cheaper but there's more carbs and fats and more lactose. If you don't tolerate either those well then away hydrolysate will probably work for you which is basically predigested way. So they've chopped up the lack W heists. It does not taste very good.
And it's expensive but it will work. Well for somebody who can't tolerate the locked up you went away and then we go down to like my tier 2 which is stuff that I feel strongly is beneficial, but I just want to see like more research done over a greater period of time and those would be things like rhodiola rosea things like beta alanine citrulline. Malate ginseng actually has quite a bit of good research on it
naming the ingredient profile of me tonic here. I'm
just that we are yeah, there it is. That's what we're here for. Maybe that's what we're here for
bed. Really? Nice Wanda another one.
So beta alanine everyone went crazy for that when Matt Fraser said on Rogan that that was maybe it was wrong or something else. He basically retired from Crossfit and said that I think he was taking like some absurd amount of beta alanine and attributed a lot of his sort of increased work capacity acutely to that was citrulline malate and I was that one of the ones you just said. Yeah. Yeah. Why
Fatigue resistance it also seems too.
There's some studies suggesting. It may simulate them tourists. There may be a small anabolic effect. We don't know if that's like independent of other things to stimulate them tour, but it seems to increase improve performance and improve fatigue resistance
just going through what we went through the the rhodiola the ginseng the citrulline beta alanine and the ashwagandha. Have you got dosages that you prefer for yourself with
those? Yeah. So rhodiola seems like anywhere
from like 150 milligrams to 450 mg. And then after that actually seems to be like a kind of shaped cup tapering off and shape Cove. Yeah, you know, we actually even as low as 50 milligrams or might be some benefits as well. But if you want like the like there's some studies that show like actual decrease fatigue and actually decrease perception of fatigue as well as well as like cognition benefits, and it seems to be like a very called adaptogen. I forgot to kind of like
that as well so it kind of
Put you back to Center for lack of a better term. But yeah, some good data on fatigue resistance for that. Ashwagandha man dosage. Why did it escaped my mind just out. I think that's actually about 150 to 300 milligrams is our sorry 300 to 600 mg for ashwagandha that's in our recovery product and downside to that is doesn't mix super. Well when you when you mix up our recovery product it tastes great.
great, but it kind of looks like Beach water a little bit because of the sediment but the ashwagandha it's interesting because
I'm convinced pretty convinced because it's been quite a few studies now showing reliably it increases strength lean mass and decreases cortisol and modestly elevates testosterone, but the effects of on cortisol and testosterone would not be enough to show those lean mass benefits. So my one hesitation is I kind of want to know what the funding mechanism is. Yeah what the mechanism is for that because whenever I see an outcome, but we don't know the mechanism. I kind of get the heebie-jeebies. Yeah.
But it seems to do that. There's been several Labs that have tested it, you know across different. No, that's why I tell people is you know Sciences is self-correcting right like
People so I don't trust science that they speak about it like this fairy.
I don't know like science is what is people are the ones that screwed up like people imperfect humans are doing science is perfect and the scientific method is about as close to perfect as you can get but since people are doing it we screw it up now where it's the reason that I don't go crazy over individual studies is because I'm the reason that creatine is on my Mount Rushmore because there are thousands of studies.
Over Decades of research across thousands of different Labs. If this was all a hoax, it is a very elaborate hoax, you know what I mean? But can one study be faked or you know done in a way where the participants and the way it's set up or massage in such a way to get sir.
Of course not a thousand times
though. Yeah, but it's hard to do over decades and across a bunch of different labs in a bunch of different countries ginseng. Yeah ginseng I have to go back I
It depends on the extraction method, but I think somewhere in that like 100 to 500 milligram dosage. I'd have to go back and look at the specifics. I could have butchered that a little
bit and you know this citrulline numbers. Well,
yeah, so the minimum appears to be about 6 grams and then up to like 8 grams. And so actually that's one thing to look for in Pre workouts. If they don't list if it's a proprietary blend that has citrulline. I mean you can almost be assured that you're not getting enough because expensive
so of our pre workout which has situation a light in it as well as rhodiola and caffeine with those five ingredients citrulline is I think 40 percent of the cost of our pre workout
rhodiola is 10% of the cost of new tonic.
Yeah. It's talking painful. Yeah. Yeah, so it's those things are
You know, I'm I feel pretty confident about them and then there's other things like fish oil. Melatonin, I think would be on that list. I'm not concerned about long-term use of melatonin. I mean, I think we show up in the human outcome data. I mean, I just I mean, I think the the the the Warriors like with caffeine the dependence right now the best thing that for that which I found for me when there is something that has a risk of Behavioral or maybe even like with other pharmacological dependence on
On usage just never take it two days in a row. If you set yourself that rule of if I took it yesterday. I can't take it today. And if I take it today, I can't take it tomorrow. You become so much more mindful about your use of these things, especially caffeine and you like right? Okay, I didn't have caffeine yesterday so I could have it today. How much do I need it today while tomorrow I've got legs first thing in the morning and I've got dinner on the evening time. Fuck. I really think I might need all
right, you just gone two days without caffeine that has spectacular and I think that to me was the I did 500 days without caffeine. So wow. Yeah.
I'm sure after the first couple weeks ago at easier
though. I did to be honest dude. I never felt the withdrawal thing. I know people get absolutely brutalized by it, but I never felt it and get my reintroduction of caffeine was just let's just not do it two days in a row because I want you to hold onto those sort of realized re sensitivities even though according to
In mono, like between three days and seven days I could have done in that time at all, but it was more like a can I do it thing and yeah, just don't do it two days in a row and this I think the same for melatonin to definitely an Optimizer because I have another friend who actually lives in Austin who's very much an Optimizer and whenever we talk I go. Okay. What kick are we on this time? Because whenever I come to visit him, it's always and you fuck it's always something he's doing when he's he's doing this everyday or he's not doing this at all for a period of time and I'm always like well kick, are we on now to the way it works?
Looks like Norton ladies and gentlemen. They appreciate the hell out of you. I love your nails. Good luck with the meet this weekend. Where should people go they want to keep up to date with the things you do? Yeah, so I mean Instagram is kind of my digital business card now, which is at bio Lane and my websites by Elaine.com and created a whole host of stuff to try and help people from every different level from you know, our team of coaches to do one-on-one coaching to our app carbon diet coach Which is less than 10 but dollars a month. That's an algorithm.
On base coaching app that you know, basically, you know, it tracks like MyFitnessPal but then it actually adjust your nutrition based on your individual metabolism based on how you're responding based on your goals. It works extremely. Well, we've had you know tens of thousands of users and like a 4.8 rating in the App Store. And so that's been nice because I've always felt like, you know one on one coaching can only help so many people and so that has been something that's allowed to reach a lot more people and then the something company we talked about work nutrition.
Now I have a research review where I try to simplify research. We kind of break down studies every single month. It's called reps and that's on my website by Elaine.com. And then I also like really what I was thinking about. How do I affect the largest amount of change? I also feel like it was mentoring coaches. And so I started something with Professor Bill Campbell called physique coaching Academy where anybody who has a goal of basically helping people transform their bodies who wants to be a coach. This is
Like we set out to make it the equivalent of a college-level education in physique Transformations. So like if you want to get deep into the science behind how to like build muscle lose fat on a biochemical level, but then also like related to actual practical coaching. We do a great job of
that. So I didn't know you had all of this stuff going on.
Yeah. I got a lot of stuff rattle around you know what I mean?
Yeah. Well this week, you've got to lift some heavy weights. That's the only thing you need to do.
Yeah. I'm I'm very excited. I
I might be set up to have.
I got a chance at possibly hitting my biggest total of all time, which after every all the injuries. I've been through and everything. That would that would probably see me lose my mind. If I did I would be
because you always seem so calm when you're lifting typically when I see you on
Instagram. I tell people I'm like when you see me on Instagram and you think I'm fired up that's like 70 80 % Lane when you get meat day Lane that's 100% which is basically a Berserker. Well, it allows me to I get to do my my Superman and Clark Kent thing. You know what I mean? I get to be the
the nerdy Clark Kent kind of guy and then I get to go out and and rage and you know do some crazy
stuff. Oh, yeah. I appreciate you man. Thank you for coming. Thanks for having me
man.
