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It is the best clip because he's like a totally different person. Well, it's what he really is but he's really is. Yeah. It's like the Ellen think, you know, it's like
I mean he really did lose his shit
there. Oh, it looks like weirdly. You know what was it? Like, I got the Christian Bale won because like, he's in characters intense seeing some guys fucking around the background. Like god. Dammit stop fucking around. I get that. Yeah. Like, he's in this. He's
In this frenzy of this intense scene, but what is fucking Isabel doing Republican? Talking points on Fox news. That was one of those deals.
It's so essential weird, environment, the the left, and right, there's no, like, Centrist news source on television, there's no, like, this is probably what's going on news source. It's always one or the other and it's like, you're living in. Bipolar, person's brain. You know,
I think, like, part of what's happened is, we used to have news and you could make a good living in news, and, you know, journalists were really sort of the top of the
social hierarchy in some way, shape, or form because they were this check and balance. And then somewhere along the way, this business model Focus people on clicks and nobody told the rest of the world that the underlying incentives were going to change. And so, that's where you find yourself, where there's very little news. I think there's a lot of opinion. And then the problem with opinion is that feeds, the outrage machine and that's the, you know, the click ometer, the click on the door, doesn't go high.
When you're like hey guys I studied this equation and show,
right? There's a 50% chance of this, it's for science, nobody
cares about that it's either. Like it's totally totally bad or it's totally totally good because it just it amps people up. And that's that's a real bummer because I think like you you don't know what to think
anymore. Well, it's also a completely novel new thing that we weren't prepared for so before there was social media and online.
In news, no one was prepared for the world of the algorithm. No one was prepared for being like, literally everything that freaks you out is what you'll be shown because that shows that you're engaging, and that's how it's set up for it, which is just so contrary to the rest of history. I mean, it was always it bleeds, it leads in the news because they wanted people to they wanted to win, ratings news, but the only had so much control and it was only on for an hour. Exactly. And now it's just
This 24/7 anxiety Fest
it's omnipresent and it's basically made to want, you know, to convince you that you need more of that thing. Yeah. And the it's like a bad diet, you know, like the first few shots of it. The first few bites of it tastes amazing but you know if you eat the full toffee cake every day for the next 300 and, you know, 65 days and then for the next year I mean you're going to get diabetes in Yak two seats.
So, the version of that is, like, your brain just gets totally fried. And then the bigger problem is and when you're presented with, maybe it's not even the truth, but an opinion that you should consider you get totally shut out of it. And that's like the real problem. You build these antibodies in your body where this other version that says, take a step back and reconsider, it's not allowed, right? And you know then if you said to yourself, well how do you even start? Where do you go? You know, like if
Or if a friend of mine works at Facebook and he showed me threads, we were playing poker last week and he showed me threads. And what's incredible is like threads and X are like the exact Polar Opposites in some ways and he was showing me in the context of like how the outrage machine on threads works. And the way it works is like this woman wrote this article about it, but what they'll do is they'll post something that says two plus two equals five.
Just that the hair thing and you'll get like a million views and then it'll first start with like, you know, folks that are like trying to gently nudge this person actually, you know, I want you to reconsider to most intellectual equals 4, you know. And then it builds and it builds and it builds. And this, that. So there's this like this weird version of how people react to like information and it tends to be kid gloves and then people just lose their mind at some point. So it's kind of like and then over here, I think on X what you find is.
There's a lot more structural data but then it can easily get lost in the noise because there's just a few things that just constantly consume, you know, what, the algorithms want to amplify and what is important in the moment. And I think that finding a way to like probably blend the two is probably, what is the best in the sense that there's probably some stuff over here? That doesn't make it over here, and there's probably a lot of stuff over here. That doesn't make it over here. A little bit of that diet for everybody. Probably goes a long
way. Is there?
Heavy content. Moderation on threads is there. I don't know, I don't use it. I don't need it. I don't have it. I just saw it in that moment but when he described how the
the engagement farming Works, hmm just excited sounded kind of like ludicrously you know.
So to explain to people the two plus two equals five if you just post that is a bizarre thing that was going around where they were talking about how math is racist. Exactly. Basically, that's where it gets too, which is races which is
Oh no. If math is racist, we have a real problem because that means everything's racist, Wells, everything's math.
You know, we had this thing in. I don't know if you saw this in the Bay Area in coveted the city of San Francisco, you know, brought together their Board of Education or whatever and there and they eliminated a bunch of AP classes including like a bunch of AP math classes and part of it was because of this reason because
they felt it was exclusionary and I think what it misses is that there's all this other stuff you could do to kind of like even the starting line for folks. But if you rip out things like AP math, like take take a step back like an eight billion people in the world. What are the odds that there's only literally one Steve Jobs?
Or literally only one Elon Musk meaning capable of that kind of execution. I suspect that there's maybe two
And so, like part of the human expect part of our social responsibility, as adults is how do you make it? So that that second Steve Jobs can find a path to do stuff right? And I'm not saying AP math is the answer but I'm saying there are people that I remember when I was growing up. I wasn't particularly good at anything in school.
But there were a few subjects, which I was just like, wow, like the little time I spent in school, I was like, I felt a little safe, you know, I could connect it built up a little bit of my self-confidence and I didn't feel so marginal. I'm sure there's a lot of kids like that for some very small subset. Maybe that's what that kind of class is it pushes them to a boundary that they didn't know was possible, you're teaching them stuff. That's really cool. So I understand what the intent is, but then the byproduct is there's a
Small group of folks that get shot out. And then that person that could be
That's Steve Jobs like person that Elon Musk like person is held a little bit back and I think that that hurts all of us. So you got to find a way where we're doing just a little bit better.
Well, the isn't the the part of the problem with eliminating gifted classes or there's there's talk I think they're doing that in New York is that where they're doing that? Find out. If that's the case, there's some where there's this hot controversy about limiting, the car eliminating the concept of gifted classes. But the
Reality is, there's some people that are going to find regular classes particularly mathematics and some of the things they're going to find them a little too easy. They're more advanced, they're more advanced students. And those students should have some sort of an option to Excel and it should be inspiring. It may be intimidating, but also inspiring to everybody else. I mean, that's part of the reason why kids go to school together to come and look how hard she works. She works so much harder than me. Look how much she's getting head. Fuck, I got to work harder and it really does work that way.
That's how human beings in cooperation, that's how they grow
together. And I think that it used to be the case that if you want to in high school,
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You would be really cool with people that were going to like specific high schools to get really good at something. Remember like that show on TV Fame. Yes. Right. And so well, that was more about the Performing Arts, right. But that was amazing. It's like, you know, if you knew a kid that was going to one of those schools, what you'd say is, wow, you are incredibly talented. In this one specific thing, go push the boundary of that and see what happens. I think we owe it to ourselves to say that. Yes, right.
There's 330 million Americans in the United States. Don't you think that if we created a bunch of different ways for people to figure out what they're super good at things are better, not worse. Like, what is the answer? Do you think? Yes, do you think things take a huge step,
you know, you have more Joe Rogan's, you have
more, Kevin Hart's, you know, you have you have more great actors, you have more great directors, but you also have more Engineers. You have more scientists, you have more doctors,
And you created a way for them to just go deep in something where their curiosity took them. That's okay. What's wrong with that idea?
It's nothing right there. Sounds
optimal. It sounds pretty reasonable. It sounds
great. It's just a matter of resources. And then also, like, completely revamping, how you teach kids that this is my gripe with this whole ADHD thing. You know, I've talked to many people who have varying opinions on whether or not that's an actual condition.
Or whether or not, there's a lot of people that have a lot of energy and you're sitting in the class, it's very boring and they don't want to pay attention to it. So instead you drug them and you give them medication, that is essentially speed unless them hyper focus on things and now all of a sudden a little Timmy's locked on, you know. It was really just a medication that he needed. And I think for a lot of those kids, if they found something that was really interesting to them. You know, maybe they're really bored with this, but they're really excited by biology.
She maybe there's something that like resonates with their particular personality and what excites them and, you know, they could find a pathway and instead we have this very rigid system that wants to get children, accustomed to the idea of sitting, still for an hour at a time over and over and over again throughout the day being subjected to people who, you know, aren't necessarily that motivated or getting paid that.
Well, well, let's we're going to probably talk about AI today but less your touch on this.
Just in this one. Second for we are going to create computers that are able to do a lot of the wrote thinking for us.
What that means is, I think the way that humans differentiate ourselves is that we're going to have to have judgment and taste, right? Those are those are very defining psychological characteristics in my opinion, but what that means if you go back to like how school is taught, what you said is very limiting for what the world is going to look like in 30 years, you know, in 30 years. Were you have a PhD assistant that's in your pocket that can literally do all of
The memorization spell. Checking grammar all of the fact recall for you teaching that today is probably not going to be as important as interpreting it. Like how do you teach kids to learn to think not to memorize and regurgitate. So we have to flip, I think this education system, we have to try to figure out a different way to solve this problem because like you can't set a children in this generation up. Our
Kids to go and have to compete with the computer room. That's crazy.
It's crazy. That's great to make a Drake song. In three
minutes, the computer is going to win. Yeah. So what can't the computer do is, I think maybe a reasonable question and I think the computer in a lot of cases can't express judgment. It will learn but today it's not going to be able to the same way that humans can. It's going to have different tastes right. So the way that we
Interpret things the same way that you motivate people, like all the psychology, all these things that are sort of like be softer skills that allowed humans to cooperate. And like, work together, that stuff becomes more important when you have a fleet of robots. And so if you go all the way back to school,
Today the school system is unfortunately in a kind of a pretty tough Loop like look teachers I think are like going to become the most you know the top three or four important people in society. And the reason is because they are going to be tasked with teaching your kids, in my kids, how to think, not to memorize. Don't tell me what happened in the War of 1812. I don't like you can just
You know, use a search engine or use a chat GPT and find out the answer. But why did it happen? What were the motivations? If it happens again, what would you do differently or the same? And those kinds of reasoning and judgment things? I think we're still far ahead of those computer. So, the teachers have to teach that which means you have to pay them more, you have to put them in a position to do that job better. And then back to what you said, you know, in my, I've lived this example of ADHD in my family, I five
Kids one of the kids was diagnosed with it and unfortunately what happens is the system a little bit closes in on you. So on the one side, they give you a lot of benefits. I guess I put it in quotes because you get these emails that say if they want extra time if they want this, if they want you know they'll give you a computer for example to take notes so that you don't hand, right? So those feel like AIDS to help you, right? But then on the other side, you know, one person
Was very adamant like, hey, you want to medicate and my ex-wife and I were just like, under no circumstances are we medicating, our child, that was a personal decision that we made with the information that we had, knowing that specific kid. All kids are different, so I don't want to generalize. And then the crazy thing, Joe, what we did was we took the iPad out of the kid's hand.
And we said, you know, in, we had these very strict device rules, and then Cove, it turned everything upside down and you're just surviving. You're Sheltering complaining about five kids, running around. They're not really being, you know, taught by the school's, the school's won't convene the kids. And so, what do you do? You just hand them the device, everything was through the device, the little class they got through the device, the way that they would talk to their friends through the device,
So it reintroduce itself in a way that we couldn't control. And then we saw this slippage and then what we did was we just drew a bright red line and we said we're taking it out of your hands. No more video games, no more iPad. We're going to do sit in very small doses and he had an entire turnaround. Hmm. But then here's what happened. I took my eye off the ball a little bit this summer because it was like, he had a great year. He reset his cell
Confidence was coming back. I was like man this is amazing and then I do the thing that you know a lot of people would do here. You can have an hour i-it's fine you know talk to your friends you know and then it started again. And then again now we just have to reset so at least in our example, what we have found and I'm not it may not apply to everybody but for us him not being bathed in this thing.
had a huge effect playing basketball outside, you know, roughhousing with his brothers you know having to talk to his friends having to talk to us, watching movies, you know, are we would just sit around because by the way,
What I noticed was like my kids had a hard time watching movies or listening to songs on Spotify for the full duration, they'd get to the hook and they'd be like Ford next and that be like, you know, they'd watch like, eight minutes next. And I was like, what are you guys doing? Like, this is like, enjoying the fullness that they couldn't even sit there for three and a half minutes. So what at least you know, my son was learning was right to just chill.
A little bit be there be able to watch the show and these the show's move at a glacial Pace relative to what they're used to if they're if they're playing a video game or Tick-Tock or Tick-Tock. Yeah. Yeah. Because Tick-Tock there like this. Boom. Boom. Boom, boom.
And it's helped. It's not a cure.
But it just goes back to what you're saying, which is like, if you give parents options and I heard this crazy stat, I don't know if this is true.
If you take your devices away from kid, the kid will feel isolated from their other students, the critical mass, I don't know if this is true or not, but it's what I was told, so I'll go with it. What is that? If you get a third of the parents? So like, in a class of 20, if you get a third of the parents to agree as well, no devices, the kid feels zero social isolation because it becomes normative. It's like, it's normal. Yeah. You gotta flip phone? Yeah.
You're texting like this to your parents or your calling, you know and I don't know, it may be worth trying, there was a crazy thing. I don't know if you can find this but there was a crazy thing Eton College which is like the most elite. If you will private school in the UK it's kind of weird. Like all the prime ministers of the United Kingdom have matriculated through Eton college. So it's like high school fancy High School.
They sent a memo to the parents for the incoming class. And the Headmaster said, when you get on campus with your child, we're going to give you like what is basically a Nokia flip phone. You are going to take the SIM card out of this kids iPhone or Android. You're going to stick it in this thing and this is how they're going to communicate with you and communicate amongst each other while they're on campus at he wow.
Mandatory mandatory. I was, I thought this was incredible. I don't know what the impact is, but that's that takes a lot of courage and I thought that's amazing. Well, it's it's great. Because then if they're communicating, they're only communicating, they're not sharing things or Snapchatting each other back and forth and The Addictive qualities of these phones, which is if you think about the course of human evolution, and you think of
How we adapted to Agriculture and civilization and we essentially became softer and less muscular and less aggressive. Like that took a long time. A long time. That was a long time. This thing is hitting us so quickly and one of the bizarre things is, it creates a disconnection even though you're being connected to people consistently and constantly through social media, there's a disconnection between human beings.
Beings and normal behavior and learning through interaction with each other social cues. All the different things that we rely on to learn how to be a friend and to learn how to be better at talking to each other. I
have a rule with my with my oldest was 15.
He'll call me. He'll call me.
Or even when I call him.
It's like this like it's like a grunt greeting right? They don't know how to talk
anymore.
And I'm like hello. That's all I want to do this thing where like I would just hang up and I'm like you know beep hang up and then he would call me back huh and then finally I said I just I just
You to have these building blocks. They may sound really stupid to you right now. But looking people in the eye,
Being able to have a normal conversation and be patient in that conversation.
Is going to be really valuable for you. People will really be connected to you. You may not feel that and you may think this is like lame and stupid what I'm telling you but I was like just try to just try to do it. And then what's so funny is like I would tell this story about like, you know, our kids go to like a, you know, very well meaning private school right and
I almost think like sometimes like again, we're not teaching necessarily kids to think for themselves were asking them to memorize a bunch of things. And one of the things that I worry that we've taught our kids to memorize our, like, the fake, greetings and salutations. So, on the one end, you have what's really visceral, which is 0. And then, on the other hand, you know, sometimes you'll see these kids and the get introduce somebody. Hello. How are you? It's great to meet you. And I'm like, man. This is the most
most, this is the fakest thing I've ever seen. So you're at these two ends of the spectrum. Hmm. And I would make fun of my kids sometimes because like, you know, they would say thank you. But they would say, like, thank you like the queen. They were like, thank you. And I'm like, what are you doing? Who taught you that? And I say thank you like that. You could just say, thank you. Right? Thanks, I appreciate that. Just look somebody in the eye. Thank you.
But what concerns me is is as this Tech gets more and more invasive.
If, in terms of how human beings particularly children interface with it and as it gets, I mean, we're really, we would just be guessing as to, what comes out of AI and to what, what kind of world we're even looking at 20 years, it seems like it's having a profound effect on the behavior of human beings, particularly young human beings and their developmental. How old are you? I'm 48, I'm 57. So when I grew up there was Zero of this and I got this slow Trickle.
Through adulthood from. When I was a child, the VHS tapes and answering machines? For the big Tech. Yeah. You at the rotary phone? Yes. Yeah, exactly. So we went through the whole cycle of it which is really interesting. Yeah. So you get you get to see this profound change in people and what's doing the kids and you got to wonder like what is that doing to this species and is that going to be normal? Is it going to be normal to be emotionally disconnected and
And like very bizarre in our person to person
interface. I think that I think that when technology is get going, you have this little burst like it's like this. These Cambrian moments, you get these little bursts, which are overwhelmingly positive. Like I don't know what your reaction was, but my reaction when I first saw the iPhone, I was I was blown away and I think like the first 45 years was entirely positive.
Because it was just so novel. Like you took this big computer and we effectively shrunk it to this little computer, made it half to a third of the cost and low and behold supply-demand, just a number of computers tripled and quadrupled and quintuple in so many more people were able to be a part of that economic cycle. All positive. Then you get a little dip and the little dip is when I think we lose a little bit of the ambition of that.
First moment and we get caught up in the economics of the current moment. And what I mean by that is, you know, the last five or ten years, I think why you feel this viscerally is we haven't had a big leap forward from the iPhone of really 2014 15, and I'm not picking on the iPhone. I'm just like a mobile device. Mmm. So what have you had over the last 10 years? You've had an enormous amount of money get created by an enormous number of apps.
And the problem is that they are in a cul-de-sac and so they'll just iterate in this one way that they understand, because the money is really good, quite honestly, and the incentives of the capital markets will tell you to just keep doing that.
But then I think what happens is something shocks us out of it and then we get the second wave. So if you go all the way back to look at like the PC, the first moment of the PC in the 70s and the early 80s was incredible. You have these people that, you know, we're able to take it and do all kinds of really interesting things. It was, it was pure, then you had sort of like the 90s and the early 2000s and what was it? It was duopolist acai best.
Microsoft and Intel. And what they were able to do was extract a huge tax by putting all of these things on folks as desks, and it was still mostly positive. But it was somewhat limited because most of the spoils went to these two companies and all the other companies, basically got a little bit run over and then it took the doj to step in in 2000 and try. To course correct that on behalf of everybody basically.
And then what happened was the internet just exploded and the internet blew the doors wide open and all of a sudden. If you had a PC, you weren't you didn't have these Gatekeepers. It actually didn't even matter whether you are running on Intel anymore, you just needed a browser. So you didn't need Microsoft Windows, right? And you didn't need intel.
And then just the internet just explodes. So we have a positive moment followed by, you know, call it 10 or 15 years of basically economic extraction. And then we have value, I think today it's like we've invented something really powerful.
We've had 10 or 15 years that were largely economic. And again, I think, you know, this is like the problem. I'm going to sound like every other, you know, nerd from Central Casting from Silicon Valley telling you this. But I do think that there's a version of this AI thing which blows the doors wide open again, and I think we owe it to ourselves to figure out how to make that, more than more likely than not likely. Well, it seems it's
inevitable, right, a eyes emergence and it's where it goes from.
I'm here on is inevitable. It's going to happen and we should probably try to steer it at least in a way that benefits everybody. And I agree with you. There is a world I could see where AI changes everything. And one of the things that makes me most hopeful is a much better form of translation so that we will be able to understand each other better. That's a giant part of the problem in the world. That's, you know, the Tower of Babel. So we really can't communicate with each other very well. So we really
Don't know what the problems are and these particular areas or why how people feel about us how we can empathize. So it's yeah, we can't win this very easy to not empathize. It, someone who you can't even you don't even know what have you
letters. Have you been in a like a situation where you have a translator with the thing in your ear? No empathy zero because the problem is you the person there is giving it to you in a certain tone because its first
person. Oh I've have that we yeah and then but the interview fighters of but like translators yeah. But like
when
You're here. It's very hard to feel empathy for this person because it's this person that you're focused on because you're trying to catch it. So right, you hear the words? I think somewhat of the meaning is a little bit lost. Then you go back to this person and you say something and they're in the same problem that you are. So I agree. That the translation thing is, it's cool. I think that there are there. So like there's just so there's going to be some negative areas and I think that there's going to be a lot of pressure on certain jobs and we got
Good that out. So it's not all roses, but some areas if you imagine them I'll give you a couple if you want. Are just bananas, I think. Okay, okay, so I'll go from the most likely to like the craziest, okay? Okay. So most likely today. Do you know, if, if you know somebody that's had breast cancer
If they go into a dock Hospital, a random Hospital in America. And the doctor says, we need to do a lumpectomy meaning, we need to take some Mass out of your breast to take the cancer out.
What do you think? The error rate today as across all hospitals in America? It's about 30%. Wow. And in Regional hospitals, so places that are poor right or places that are in far-flung, parts of the United States, it can be upwards of 40%. This is not the doctors fault. Okay. The, the problem is that you're forcing him or her to look with their eyes.
Into tissue and try to figure out. Well, where is the border? Where the cancer stops? Hmm. So for every ten surgeries what that means our a week later. So imagine this you get a breast cancer surgery, they take it out, they send it to the pathologist up assault, pathologist takes between 7 and 11 days. So you're kind of waiting, seven of the calls. Come back your clean. Margins, you're great now. Go to the next step, 3 of the call.
Alls I'm sorry. There's still cancer inside your body. Three. So these women now go back for the next surgery but the problem is one of those women will get another call that says I'm sorry there's still cancer.
And so, what is that? That's a computer vision problem, right? That's not a, that's not necessarily a problem, that cannot be solved. Literally today, we have models, we have tissue samples of women of all ages, of all Races, right? So you have all of the different boundary conditions, you'd need to basically get to a zero percent error rate.
And what's amazing is that is now working its way through the FDA. So call it within the next two years, they'll be an AI assistant that sits inside of an operating room.
The surgeon will take out what they think is appropriate, they'll put it into this machine and no to literally, I'm going to simplify, but it'll flash, red or green. You got all the cancer out.
You need to take out a little bit more, just right over here and now you get it out. And now, all of a sudden, instead of a 30 percent error rate, you have a zero percent error rate. Mmm, that's amazing. That's today because you have this computer that's able to help you and all we need is the will. And the data that says, okay, we want to do this, just show me that it works and show me what the alternative would be if we didn't do it. And the alternative turns out to be pretty brutal.
Cool.
14 surgeries for every 10 surgery. Like I mean that's like that's not what the most advanced nation in the world should be doing, right? Okay, so if you do it for breast cancer, the reason why breast cancer is, where folks are focusing, is because it gets so much attention. And it's like prime time, but it's not just breast cancer, lung cancer, pancreatic cancer stomach, cancer, colon cancer.
if you look at any kind of tumor,
so if you're at the stage where you're like we need to get this thing, this foreign growing thing, out of our body,
we should all have the ability to just do that with zero percent error and it will be possible in the next couple of years because of a, I okay. So that's kind of like a bat school and it's coming.
I think between years to and years five,
You're going to see this crazy explosion in materials, and this is going to sound may be dumb, but it's I think it's one of the coolest things. If you look at the periodic table of elements, what's amazing is like we keep adding
So there's like 118 elements, we actually just theoretically forecasted, there's going to be 119, so we create a little box, it's going to be. It's like it's theoretical but it's going to show up and they forecasted that there's going to be 142, okay? So the periodic table of elements, quote-unquote grows, but when you look at the lived world today,
We live in this very narrow expression, of all of those things, we use the same few materials over and over and over again. But if you had to solve a really complicated problem,
Don't you think the answer could theoretically be in this? Meaning, if you took, I'm going to make it up.
Selenium and then doped it with titanium 1%. But if you doped it with Boron 14%, all of these things are possible. It's like stronger than the strongest thing in the world and wow, and it's lighter than anything. So now you can make rockets with it and send it all the way up with less entered, like it's all possible. So why haven't we figured it out? Because the amount of energy and the amount of computers we need to solve those problems, which are Super complicated.
Haven't been available to us.
I think that is this next phase of a. I so what you said which is we're going to have these phd-level robots and agents in the next two to five years. We're going to come up with all kinds of materials. You know, you'll have a frying pan that's like nonstick but doesn't have to heat up like all you know, whatever you want from. Like the most benign to the most incredible stuff will just re-engineer. What's on Earth? That's going to be crazy, it's going to be incredible. We all benefit from that the
Kinds of jobs that that creates we don't even know what job class that is to work with selenium. In bore, I mean, I'm going to making up these offensive, please them. So the point is that there's so that's like in the in the middle phase. So our physical lived world is going to totally transform. Imagine a building. That's made of a material that bends can just go like this and nothing changes to it.
Why would that be important? Well, if you want to protect yourself from, you know, the crazy unpredictability of climate in the areas where it's acceptable to that, maybe you need, you can construct these things, much cheaper, well, earthquakes earthquakes, you could construct more of them. Imagine in San Francisco, you could build buildings that solve the housing crisis, but do it in a way that was cheaper because the materials are totally different and you could just prove that these things are bulletproof. So instead of spending a billion dollars to build a building because you got to
Go, you know, hundreds of feet into the Earth, you know, the Earth you just go 50 feet and it just figures it out. So that's like so that's possible. And I think there will be people that use these AI models to go and solve those things.
And then after that I think you get into the world of it's not just robots that are in a computer but it's like a physical robot.
And those physical robots are going to do things that today, we'll make so much sense in hindsight. So, an example, I was thinking about this this weekend. Imagine if you had a bunch of Optimus has,
Like test this robot and they were the beat cops. They were the highway patrol. Okay, now, what happens there? Well, first you don't put humans in the way. I suspect than the reaction of those robots. Could be markedly different. Now, those robots will be controlled remotely, right? So, the people that are remote,
Now can be a very different archetype right instead of the physical requirements of policing. You now, add this other layer, which is the psychological elements and the judgment. And so my point is that if you had robots, that were able to do that, the dangerous work for humans. I think it allows humans to do again judgment, you know those areas of judgment which are very gray and fuzzy. It'll take a long time for computers to be able to replace us do that.
I really do think. So. I think the biggest thing that we have done as a disservice to what is coming, is some folks have tried to say that AI is the end-all and Beall. And I think the better way to think about this is that, you know how like you used to have to get your spelling right in an email and now you just don't think about it because like Gmail just fixes it, mmm it up levels us, right? You used to have to remember the details.
Tales of like some crazy Theory. Random detail fact now you can just Google it so you can leave your mind to focus on other things, right. The creativity to to write your next you know, to write your next set to think about the next interview to think about your business because you're occupying less time with the perfunctory stuff.
I think these models do are doing that and they're going to get complimented with physical models, meaning physical robots and they're going to do a lot of work for us that we have not done or today that we do very precariously, you know like should a robot go in and save you from a fire? I think it can probably do a pretty good job. They'll have multiple sensors, they'll have Vision, they will be able to understand exactly what's going on. If something is falling they'll just be able to put their
Up and just like that, you know what I mean? Like, if they encounter any person of any body weight, it's no problem pick that person up transport them.
Again, it allows humans to focus on the things that were really, really differentiated. I do think it creates complications, but, you know, we have to figure those out. So that's like a kind of like a short medium, long
term. Well, I see what you're saying in the final example, as the rosy scenario, that's the best-case option, right? That it gives people the freedom to be more creative and to pursue different things.
And I think there's always going to be a market for handmade things, people like things that like the, like the like an acoustic performance. They like stuff, where it's like, very human and very real but there's a lot of people that just want a job and these people maybe just aren't inclined towards creativity and maybe there are very simple people who just want a job and they just want to work. Those are the people that are worried about. I
A about them as well. And I think that like I don't I didn't live in The Agrarian economy nor in the industrial revolution. So I don't know how we solved this problem, but we have seen that problem. Two times.
And each time, we found a way and this goes back to sort of, like news and politics and like, just working together. But in each of those moments, we found a way to make things substantively better for all people. Like, I saw this crazy stat in 1800, do you know how many people lived in extreme poverty? I'm a 80%. Whoa, you know where we are today. Sub 10% single digits.
And it's a straight line that goes like this and that was through an agrarian Revolution. It was through the Industrial Revolution. So it is possible for humans to cooperate to solve these problems. I don't know what the answer is, but I do think you are right. That it will put a lot of pressure on a lot of people.
But that's why we got to just figure this
out. What are your thoughts on universal, basic income as a Band-Aid sort of mitigate that transition?
I'm pretty sympathetic to that idea. I grew up on welfare.
that's what I can tell you is that there are a lot of people who
are trying their best and for whatever set of boundary conditions, can't figure it out. I
agree. I grew up on welfare as well. Yeah, yeah.
And so if I didn't have that safety, net
You know my my parents as struggles I think would have gotten even worse than what they were, right? So I'm a Believer in that social safety net. I think it's really
important case scenario, right? Because your parents work, their way out of it, my parents work their way out of it, but some people are just content to just get a check. And this is the issue. I think that a lot of people have is that people will become entitled and just want to collect a check and if it's
A substantial portion of our country, like, if Universal basic income. If AI eliminates, let's just say a crazy number, like 70% of the manual, labor jobs truck, drivers, construction, workers, all that stuff, gets eliminated. That's a lot of people without a purpose. And one of the things that a good day's work and earning your pay, it makes people feel self-sufficient, it makes people feel valuable and it gives them a sense of purpose. And they could look at the thing that they did, maybe build a building
Or something like that and drive the kids by. Hey, we built that building right there. Oh wow. It's a part of their identity. And if they just get a check, and then what do they do? Just play video games all day. That's the worst case scenario is that people just get locked into this world of computers and online, and just receive checks and have the bare necessities to survive and are content with that. And then don't contribute at all the
The jobs that like let's let's put it this way. If if we were sitting here in
1924 whatever a hundred years ago, you know. Right in the midst of the turn of the Industrial Revolution, we would have seen a lot of folks that worked on farms.
And we would have wondered well, where are those jobs going to come from?
and,
I think that now when you look back it was like not obvious but you could see where the the new job classes came from. It's like all of these industries that were possible because we built a factory and a factory turned out to be a substrate and then you built all these different kinds of businesses which create a different kinds of jobs on top of it.
I would hope that if we do this, right? This next leap is like that where we are in a period where it's hard to know with certainty what this job class goes to over here but I think you have a responsibility to go and figure it out and talk it out and play it out because the past would tell you that we have a really good humans when they're unimpeded. Have a really good about.
Ability to invent these things so I don't know, maybe what it is is by you know, 2035 there's a billion people that have traveled to Mars and you're building an entire planet from the ground up.
They'll be all sorts of work to do there and what kind of people are going to go first
there?
I think that they'll be a lot of people that are frustrated with what's happening here.
Yeah, sure. Just like the people that got on the Pinta, the Santa Maria, and
made the way it all. It all starts with, like, a group of people that are just like, I'm, I'm fed up with
this. Yeah. But to want to go to a place that doesn't even have an atmosphere that's capable of sustaining human life. And
Try to figure and you can only go back every couple of years. Like, those people are going to be psychos, you're going to have a completely psychotic. It's Australia on meth, you know, it's like the worst case scenario of the the cast out of society. Like,
just just like what you say is it, it's so true. But like, if you think about what that decision looked like,
400 years ago, when that first group of prisoners were put on a boat and sent to Australia, right? That's probably what it felt like. Yeah, most people on the mainland, when they were like Jay Chou? Yeah, probably thinking and this is insane, right? So it will always look like that. It'll be easier to rationalize it in hindsight. But I do think that there will be a lot of people that want to go when it's possible to go and
Like, look, you know, we're in the studio.
We could be anywhere. We could be in Salt Lake City, right? We could be in Rome, right? We could be in Perth. You don't know the same especially today, so you can be on Mars?
Yeah. Would you could, you wouldn't know. Yeah. You know, that could be the future is, you know, instantaneous communication with people on other planets. Just like you can talk to people in New Zealand today.
So that's an amazing example of an innovation and materials.
Science that we have been experimenting with for years. So basically, at the core of what you just said is a semiconductor problem, it's a doping problem. Is it silicon germanium? Is it, is it silicon germanium with a something else? And the problem Joe is to answer what you just said is a tractable problem that is been bounded by energy and computers.
And we're at a point where we're almost at infinite energy and at a point where almost that, like what I say is very specific which is we're at the point, where right? In the distance is the marginal. Cost of energy is basically zero the marginal cost, meaning to generate the next kilowatt is going to cost like sub a penny. Even with today's stuff. You don't need nuclear, you don't need any of that stuff. We're just on this trend line right now, and
Because of a I are at the point where to get an answer to a question, super complicated is going to be basically zero. The cost of that. When you put those two things together, what you just said, we will be in a position to answer the world will be able to say, oh Joe, you want, instantaneous communication between here and Mars. We need to harden these communication chips. We're going to build it with this stuff, which we simulated on a computer. We made it, it works. Its shipping, we're done now, that's will still take five.
Years to do. But my point is all these things that sound crazy.
Are not there. Actually not that crazy. These things are like achievable technical milestones.
It, everything will boil down to a technical question that I think we can answer. You want to Hover Board? We could probably figure
it out. Well, then also with Quantum Computing, and one of the things about AI that's been talked about, is this massive need for energy. And so they're going in there, at least it's been proposed to develop nuclear sites, specifically to power AI, which is wild.
Yeah, I'm have to be
You got to dance around this.
No, I'll tell you what I think.
Okay, well, maybe a before I give you my opinion. Can we tell you the facts? Okay.
Today it costs about four cents a kilowatt hour, just don't forget the units. Just remember the four cents concept 20 years ago, it cost like six or seven cents if you go and get solar panels on your roof, basically cause nothing. In fact, you can probably make money so cost you like - one cent because you can sell the energy in many parts of America back to the grid?
But if you look inside the energy Market, the cost has been compounding and you would say, well how does this make sense if the generation costs it keeps falling. Why is my end user costs? Keep going up. This is like that doesn't make any sense. And when you look inside,
We have a regulatory.
Burden in America, that says to the utilities of which they're like, less than 2,000 in America. We're giving you a monopoly. Effectively in this area of Austin, you can provide all the energy now taxes is different, but I'm just using it as an example.
But in return, I'm going to allow you to increase prices, but I'm going to demand that. You improve the infrastructure every few years. You got to upgrade the grid, you got to put money into this money into that over the next ten years. We got to put a trillion dollars, America collectively into improving the current grid which I think will not be enough because it is aging and most importantly, it's insecure.
Meaning folks can penetrate that folks can hack it. Folks can do all kinds of stuff. So and then it fails in critical moments. I think that, you know, in Austin you had like, a whole bunch of like, really crazy outages in the last couple of years, people died like this is in 2024 that's like totally unacceptable. So I think as like people decide that they want resilience,
You're going to see 110 million power plants.
Which is every homeowner in the United States. Everybody's going to generate their own energy. Everybody's going to store their energy in a power wall. This stuff is going to become, I mean absolutely dirt cheap and it'll just be the way that energy is generated. So you'll you have this but this is not the whole solution because you still need the big guys to show up.
When you look inside of like, the big guys. So, like now you're talking about these two thousand utilities that need to spend trillions of dollars. They can do a lot of stuff right now to make enough energy to make things work. But when you look at nuclear, I would just say that there are two different kinds of nuclear. There's the old and the new the old stuff. I agree with you. It's just money and you can get it turned back on.
It's a specific isotope of uranium, you can deal with it. Everybody knows in that world, how to manage that safely but then what you have are like these next Generation things and this is where I get a little stuck and I'm not smart enough to know all of it but I'm close enough to be slightly ticked off by which is it there's a materials and a technical problem with these things and what I mean back to materials some of these next-gen reactors.
Need a material that will take you like 50 years in the united in America and the world to like Harvest announced. The only place where you can really get it is the moon in sufficient quantity, are you really going to what? I mean, that's how it's going to work. Like you're going to go to the Moon. To we're going to go to the Moon, you're going to harness this material, then, you know, schlep it all the way, all the way back to some place in Illinois, to make sense. I find that hard to believe what is the material and I can
I can find it it's in an email that one of my folks at me but it's like it's a certain form of reactor that uses a very rare material to create the plasmatic energy that can generate all of this stuff and it's just very hard to find on Earth. So I kind of scratch my head. What's the benefit of this particular type of nuclear reactor enormous energy
So like you know a solar cell gets this much energy, you know a nuclear reactor does this and like this other thing does that and it's super clean and so my point is like these next-gen reactors. I think have some pretty profound technical problems. That haven't been figured out. I applaud the people that are going after it but I think it's important to not oversell that because it's super hard and there's still some
Profound technical challenges that haven't been solved yet. You know, we just got past what's called like, you know, positive, net, energy meaning let's just like you put, I'm making up a number, you know, 100 units of energy in.
And at least you try to get out like a hundred .01 and we're kind of there. So that's where we are on these next-gen reactors, the old generation of reactors. I'm a total believer in and we should be building these things as fast as possible. So that we have an infinite amount of energy. By the way, if you have Infinite Energy, you know, the most important thing I think that happens is you have a massive peace dividend. There's like the odds of the United States going to war.
When we have Infinite Energy approaches zero
but isn't the problem with introducing this to other countries and I believe it was India where they introduced nuclear power plants, then they realized very quickly, they could figure out how to make nuclear
weapons from that. Yes, when you when the when the uranium degrades it can be used in weapons-grade,
uranium and the real problem would be if that is not a small handful of countries that have nuclear weapons, but the entire world, it
You get very
sketchy.
I think you're you're touching what I think objectively to me.
Is the single biggest threat facing all of us today.
I escaped a civil war so I've I've had a lived experience of how destructive War could be. The collateral damage of war is terrible, where were you in Sri Lanka? And you know, it was a I was part of the ethnic majority single he's Buddhist but, you know, we were they were fighting Hindu Tamil minority.
And it was a 20-year Civil War, it flipped the whole country upside down, from an incredible place, with 99% literacy to just a, you know, a struggling, developing third world country. And so we move to Canada, we stay in Canada, you know, my parents do whatever they could, they really, and they got run over by that war. They went from a solidly middle class life
To my father, you know, it had a ton of, you know, just alcoholism and didn't really work and my mother went from being a nurse to being a housekeeper and it was dysfunctional. It really crippled. I think their dreams for themselves and so, you know, they breed that into their kids fine. But that can't be the solution where hundreds of millions or billions of people have to deal with that risk.
And I am objectively afraid that we have lost the script a little bit. I think that folks don't really understand how destructive War can be but also that there are not enough people objectively afraid of this and that's what sends my Spidey senses up and says, hold on a second. When everybody is telling you that this is off the table and not possible.
Shouldn't you just look at like the world around? And ask are we sure that that's true and I come and I think to myself, wow. Where are, you know, the biggest risk of my lifetime and I think the only thing that that is probably near this is maybe at some point in the Cold War. I don't know, because I was so young, definitely, you know, Bay of Pigs, but it required JFK to draw a hard Line in the Sand.
And say absolutely not.
So will we be that fortunate this time around? Are we going to find a way to eliminate? That existential risk. This is why I like my my current sort of like vein of political philosophy is mostly that, which is like, you know, the Democrats and the Republicans there's just so much fighting over so many small Stakes issues in the sense that some of these issues matter more or less in different points, but there is one issue.
Above all. Which where? If you get it wrong, nothing matters. And that is nuclear war and you have two and a half nuclear Powers now that are out and about
Extending and projecting their power into the world. Russia, China and Iran. That wasn't what it was like 10 years ago, that wasn't what it was like 25 years ago. It wasn't even what it was like four years ago. And I just don't think enough people take a step back and say, hold on a second. If this thing escalates,
all this stuff that you and I just talked about won't matter.
Whether you know, our kids are on Adderall or not or the iPad or don't give them so much Fortnight or, you know, Material Science or, you know, optimists and it's all off the table because we will be destroying ourselves. I and I just think that that's tragic. We have an enormous responsibility right now for the village, Elders of the world to tell people, guys. We are sleepwalking into something that you can't walk back from one of the
strangest things about us is the kind of wisdom that's necessary to sort of see the future and prognosticate and see where this could go especially based on the history of human beings and how many times things have like you were talking about Sri Lanka, but there's many examples all over the world of civilizations that were thriving that we're pounded into dust and because every day is similar for us, we have this inability
E to look forward and to see make that leap and see the potential for disaster that all these things have. And this is what freaks me out about. When people talk openly about, you know, we have to win with Russia versus new crane. Like, what are you talking about? Like, what is winning? Yeah. What does that mean? Like, the sounds insane and then applauding the long-range attacks into Russia now. Like a nest? This escalation. Oh, you know, they're there.
Are attacking Russia now, they'll show them. Like, what are you in a movie? Like, are you, do you think that this always ends up with the good guys winning? Because that's not the case in human history at all? And not only have there is no good guy. If people start launching nukes, everybody's a bad guy and everybody's fucked. Yeah. And that's on the table, it's not when you see long-range Israel bombing campaigns in the Lebanon and you see what's going on with Ukraine and Russia, like, who knows? Who knows.
This escalates who knows what the retaliatory response is? Who knows what the response to the response is.
I think I think like let me add to this by saying, we know what the response will be not. It will not be measured, it will not be calm, it will not be. Hey let's get on the phone and talk about it right. Like the thing is there is a long period of time where you know America was the leading moral actor in the world. Right. And I think that we
we spoke from a place of wisdom but also like earned respect.
But we forget that at the end of the Cold War, it's not that we vanquished the USSR as much as they imploded from with it, right? It was just an economic Calamity. They just couldn't afford to keep up with us. And the reason was we had these two edges, right? We had a technological Edge and we had a, an economic Edge and when you put those two things together, it created a lot of abundance. Now,
We can talk about how some of it that is not equal, which I also agree with, but it allowed America to be sort of effectively, for a long period of time the top dog.
The honest reality is that's not where we are. Today, we are one of two or three and the problem with that is that you can't look back in history and try to live your life. Like what it was like in the good old days. You know, we're not the high school football star anymore.
So we need to live in a more modest way in a more reliable and consistent way with neighbors. That have also for themselves done. Well,
And just realize that they have their own incentives and when you tell them to do something, they're not always going to listen. So, if we don't understand that and find a way to deescalate these things,
what you said is going to happen, something is going to be one step too far.
A reaction, a reaction, a reaction and then eventually, somebody will overreact.
And that is all just so totally avoidable.
And I and it just frustrates me that we objectively, don't understand that. We sweep it under the carpet and we talk about all the other things.
And I understand that some of those things, all of those things, let's say matter at but at some point in time, nothing matters. Because if you don't get this right nothing matters. And I think we have to find a way of finding people that draw bright red line and say, this is the line I will never cross under any circumstance and I think America needs to do that first because it's what gives everybody else, the ability to exit stage left and be okay with it.
The other problem that America clearly has is that there are there's an enormous portion of what controls the government, whether you want to call it the military industrial complex or military contractors. There's so much money to be made and pushing that line pushing it to the brink of Destruction but not past maintaining a constant state of War but not an apocalypse and that as long as there is financial incentives to keep
Escalating and you're still getting money and they're still signing off on hundreds of billions of dollars to funnel this. And it's all going through these military contractors and bring over weapons and gear. And the Wind Falls, huge, the amount of monies huge and they do not want to shut that off for the sake of humanity, especially if someone can rationalize you get this diffusion of responsibility when there's a whole bunch of people together and they're all talking about it, everyone's kind of on the same page and you have shareholders
hours that you have to represent, like the whole thing is
bananas. So I think you just said, the key thing, this may be super naive.
But I think part of the most salvageable feature of the military-industrial complex is that, these are for-profit, largely public companies.
That have shareholders. And I think that if you nudge them,
To making things that are equally economically valuable or more ideally more, they probably would do that. What would be an example of that other than weapons manufacturing like what would be equally economically viable? So part of when you look at the
The primes, the five big kind of like folks that that's you know get all of the economic activity from the Department of Defense. What they act is as an organizing principle for a bunch of Subs, underneath effectively there like a general contractor. And then, you know, they have a bunch of subcontractors, there's a bunch of stuff that's happening in these things.
That you can reorient. If you had an economy that could support it. So for example, when you build a drone, okay? What you also are building a subcomponent, a critical and very valued subcomponent all the navigation, all the communications, all of it has to be encrypted. You can't hack it. You can't do any of that stuff.
There is a broad set of commercial applications for that that are equal to and greater than just the profit margin of selling the Drone but they don't really explore those markets. If, for example, we are multiplanetary I'll just go back to that example.
I will bet you.
Those same organizations will make two or three times as much money by being able to redirect that same technology into those systems that you just described. Hey, I need an entire Communications infrastructure that goes from Earth to the Moon to Mars. We need to be able to triangulate. We need internet access across all these endpoints. We need to be real time from the get-go.
There's just an enormous amount of economic value to do that. So again, we have these very siloed parts of the economy that are limited by what we know. And what we know is part of what you just said, which is we built these things and then, some people convince others to use the things that we built. And I think instead of saying like, there's like some crazy nefarious plot to always go to war instead, if we say, if you make the thing and you could sell it to a different market and make more money,
Why would these people do it or they hell-bent on War? I think it's more that they would just do it
as long as there's not still a business for war.
So then it reduces War
to a very different kind of business. I think it's
Smaller. I think it's more kind of drone oriented. I'm not saying that war will net will go away. I'm not, there's no Utopia where War goes away
but I use a crazy thing to say
really unfortunately, I think that we're always going to be fighting for some resource. So the last 30 or 40 years, all these forever Wars, we were fighting over energy
effectively. This is my one bright spot that I think about with AI as well. So like everyone.
Is terrified of the open border situation, and criminals coming across the border, and wouldn't the solution be not have a place. Like a desperate, third world country where people are trying to escape on foot with their families. If we were living next door to another United States, and you just travel freely back and forth between the two of them because it really didn't matter. Both of them are equally safe. Both of them have equal economic Prosperity. Both of them are
No equally democratically. Governed, no problem. Yes, go over there. Go over here, week on used to be like that, with Canada. You know what, Canada used to go over there with a driver's license fees to be able to go back and forth to the United States. I mean, I think, the first time I went to Canada, I did not have a passport. I had a driver's license and it was kind of the same sort of deals are just accepted. Oh, that place is cool. Were cool. We're next to each other, if the whole world was like that, be incredible, right? Would be incredible and I think AI makes that possible. I think
So too, I think it makes that possible and we're going to have to deal with a few, very uncomfortable factors, one of them being the illegal drug trade and another one being the consequences of prohibition and forcing people into provisioning drugs of drugs. Yes, which is, I'm not comfortable with that, but I feel like the only way to disempower illegal drug manufacturing is to have legal drug manufacturing. That's regulated.
The only way to stop the fentanyl, overdoses is to have cocaine become legal, but the problem with that is you can add a bunch of people that are addicted to cocaine. So,
can I ask you a question? I'm not, I don't do drugs, I don't understand. But what's the step before it, like what causes you to want to do Fentanyl?
Or they don't do Fentanyl on purpose. Okay, Moe started because of a prescription. No most fentanyl. Overdoses is fentanyl that's cut into other drugs. Particularly party drugs like Molly and ecstasy.
See cocaine even heroin things along those lines, where people think that they're getting a pure thing, but they're getting it from the cartel and they laced with this. Yes, it's it's cheap and it's very small amounts of fentanyl do incredible damage. Like the amount of fentanyl that can kill you is like the head of a nail. It's very small. If you're seeing it in relationship to a pasta, I've seen a picture of it's crazy. So the problem is if you have a drug and you've cut it with a bunch of other things because you
To sell as much of it as possible, you add a bunch of things into it. And did increase the potency they had Fentanyl and because that it's all done illegally, it's unregulated. So a lot of people died and the numbers in the United States. I think there are upwards of 100,000 people
can you, is there something to do to motivate folks to not do the party drugs?
Well I think you're going to have to have a massive education campaign and people going to have to understand it. The same way, they understand, cigarettes, like, cigarette smoking and young people is down
Down quite a bit from the 80s. Right. And I think that's because of people understanding the consequences of it, but you're always going to have people that want to smoke cigarettes and my belief is that they should be able to smoke cigarettes. I don't think you should do Adderall all day but if you get a prescription, you can do it. But at least in my mind you're getting adderal from a pharmacy and that Pharmacy is going to give you actual Adderall and not some fentanyl laced thing that's going to kill you and you have no.
D'you think you're taking the same thing, you've always taken and then one day, you're dead. And that's the case with a lot of people today especially with party drugs, I don't think you should do heroin. I don't think you should do Coke. I don't think you should fuck your life up and I know too many people who have fucked her life up, but I also don't think that I should be able to tell you what you can do. Especially when there's all these drugs that are readily available particularly alcohol, which is one of the most destructive drugs to your health to relationships and
These two societies, how many alcoholics? How many drunk driving accidents? How many drunk people murdered other people. There's just horrible consequences of alcohol, but I completely support alcohol, being legal. Say we we have learned how to consume alcohol about
culture. What about what happened in Oregon, you know, like Oregon West a past year legalize it. And now
they, well I'm really glad they were already off the rails. Okay. This is not like legalizing drugs.
Things in a very, it's not like legalizing drug in San Francisco. In the year 2000. It's a completely different scenario. So you have these people that are really they're accustomed to tents and subsidizing drug addicts and they're accustomed to this very bizarre breakdown of Civil Society where you're seeing open-air drug markets, and everyone's fine with it. And it's somehow or another kind and compassionate to
To allow this to take place everywhere. And that's what you have in Portland, right? Portland is probably one of the most liberal cities that we have well as leftist cities that we have. So, for Oregon to do it that way, I think it's a like an awesome libertarian notion to say, you know what, we shouldn't make any of these things, a crime, these are personal choices and you can make good personal choices or bad ones will have everything like that. But the problem is the fabric of society. The
Encouragement of discipline and of hard work and of accomplishment had been eroded to the point where accomplishment meant that there was something wrong with you. Like if you were a person that was Eat the Rich tax the rich, if you are a person that had accomplished something great, it wasn't because of some extraordinary effort, you put in even if it was it was you did something to fuck over other people. That's the only way you get rich in this world and it's just bizarre and it is permeated Portland. So, when
Gnu, introduced free heroin to that like you're gonna get more problems. It's just and you're subsidizing people for living on the streets would say, do. I mean, I watch this interview where they were talking these people in the Pacific Northwest where they move their specifically. So they could be homeless, because they knew that they get money and they there's no incentive to get out of those tents. There's no incentive. There's free food and free drugs. And they give you money, they like, okay,
right? So that didn't fail because of the actual drug policies, right? But more of the
Social policy. I think if you ever heard of dr. Carl Hart. No, he's a professor at. Is he at Columbia? I believe is our Columbia. Carl Hart was a straight chemists, like a guy, studying chemistry and studying these substances Columbia and he was a clinical researcher and along the way he started realizing that our our understanding of these
drugs and the pros and cons of them had been flavored by Propaganda heavily, particularly the sweeping Act of 1970 that made almost everything illegal which was really to Target civil rights groups and anti-war people. And so this is during the Nixon Administration, they made a bunch of things that were psychedelics MKUltra. Is that in that? Well, MKUltra was actually before that was when they were experimenting with people, okay, particularly with, with LSD. So, when they started doing this,
The they made everything illegal. And now, the only way you can get any of these things is through illegal sources, so you getting them through the cartels. So if we don't have the ability to legalize things and the problem with legalization, there's a lot. It's there's no good answer here. So to keep things illegal, you're going to have fentanyl overdoses. I know people have lost their children. I know people have lost their brothers and sisters to this. It's a horrible.
The thing that happens.
You're also going to get heroin overdoses if it's legal. So Jesus Christ like and you're going to get more people to try it because it's legal but it's just like prohibition during the 1920s with the 1930s rather when when they have that what they did was, they enabled the mob and they enabled organized crime and that was the rise of Al Capone and that was the rise of the Moonshiners and you essentially you always had a demand and the people that were willing to supply that demand were criminals.
And they were criminals in this country we're empowering criminals that are essentially running Mexico, which is bizarre. You know, I know during the latest election, how many assassinations were there was at 37 or 35 during their latest elections in Mexico, in Mexico. There was at least 35 assassinations
there are their European countries that do this. Well,
Portugal, Portugal is decriminalized everything and they saw massive, decrease in HIV. Imagine massive
Decrease in drug addiction and all sorts of other things. I don't know what the long-term study is on the 37th 3737. Assassinated candidates. I mean, you have to play ball with the cartel over there.
You know, just like you had to play ball with the mob and the 1930s, you have to play ball. They have the guns and they're really mean, and they'll do whatever the fuck they want to the 2021. Midterms when 36 candidates were killed, oh my gosh. Jeez. Oh my God, jeez. Yeah, it's wild down there. That is a direct result of having trillions of dollars being made by selling illegal drugs and made most of them to sell to America.
I'm sure they sell them to other places and
it's all fentanyl. Or is it
all is its balances things? No, I don't think there's a lot of money in that the real moneys in like meth meth cocaine. They have a problem with illegal marijuana. That's grown in the United States on National Forest land. Because what happened is, especially in California, my friend, John Norris, he wrote a book called hidden war, and he was a fishing game officer. And, you know, basically wanted to be the guy that lecture
X your fishing license. Like great job. You're out in the outdoors. And why does it one day? One day getting a movie, it is a beginning of a movie. I'm sure they're probably doing a movie on it, but in one day, they find this Creek. That is dried up. And they think that perhaps how they diverted the wall, someone's diverted the water. They thought it was a farmer that had done something inappropriate, or whatever. So they follow the creek up and they find this illegal grow up. That's run by the cartel and this is the B. And then then, then they become a Tactical Unit and they have been
Malum woz, and bulletproof vests and machine guns. The whole thing's crazy, and they get in shootouts with the cartel in National Forest land because it's a misdemeanor to grow pot illegally in a state where pot is legal. So California has legal marijuana. You could go to any store anywhere. Use credit cards. It's open. Free market. If you follow the rules, you can open up a store, but if you don't follow the rules, you can sell it illegally, just a
misdemeanor II.
To learn about marijuana, the market, but you can't process the money. I think, right
some states. Like I know in Colorado, it was a real problem. And in Colorado, they had to do everything in
cash. Like Breaking Bad, like bricks of cash,
and all they were using mercenaries, they're essentially using, you know, military contractors to run the money back and forth to the bank because you had a bring the bank money in bulk, right? So, you know, you have a million dollars in an armored car and
a bunch of guys like tailing the car in front of the car and they're driving into the bank and everyone knows there's a million dollars in their car. So who you have to like really be fortified and so it was very sketchy for a lot of people. I don't know what the current condition Colorado is now. I don't know if you're still, if they still have to do it that way, a couple of
companies. I just, I remember the reason I know this is like a guy came and Pitch me on some business and he was like the software for all that.
And, you know, the I think the company went public and I just realized it just went sideways because like, nobody wanted to touch it because they didn't want to build rails for that economy. Yeah. Which didn't make much sense seeing as, to me at least, just because if the law is say, it's legal, then it should all be treated equally. But then the problem I think I remember them telling me was the federally. It's still gray.
Yeah, it's great. And they're trying to diminish that at the light later steps during the body Administration, is to change it to a schedule 3.
And that's up for. That's a proposal. Let's go there with that would help. But really it should be just like alcohol, it should be something you have to be 21 years old to buy, should have to have an ID and we should educate people how to use it responsibly and we should. Also pay attention to whoever the fuck is growing it, and make sure you're not going wacky, you know, like there's there's people that are botanist that are out of their mind, potheads that are just 24/7, hitting bongs and they're making stuff. That'll put you on Mars without Elon Musk. I remember the
The problem that somebody raised I read this in an article was you need to make it more than what it like more legal than it is today. So that you can get folks to put like some version of a nutritional label on the thing and show intensity, right? Because the intensity is not regulated
right? Well they do regulated in California. If you go to good places in California, let's say this is 39 percent THC which is very high. This is 37, this is, you know, but then there's also the problem.
um with one thing that marijuana seems to do to some people that alcohol doesn't necessarily some people have a propensity for alcoholism and it seems to be genetic but there's a thing that happens with marijuana where people who have a tendency towards schizophrenia, marijuana can push them over the edge and Alex Berenson, wrote a great book about this called, tell your kids, and I've personally witnessed people who've lost their Marbles and I think it's people that have this
Propensity. Because one of the things that I think is beneficial about marijuana in particular, and this is some of the, one of the things that freaks people out is the paranoia, right? Will paranoia is, I think I feel like what it is is a hyper-awareness and I think it it pushes down all these boundaries that you've set up all these walls and all these blinders so that you see the world for what it really is. And a lot of people at freaks out, but what I think it does is It ultimately makes
You more compassionate and Kinder and nicer and you realize like in the moment or afterwards afterwards, it's I think it's a tool for recognizing things that you are conveniently ignoring. And you know, my friend Eddie told me about this once he was saying if you're having a bad time and you smoke marijuana, you're going to have a worse time because you're already freaking out you already freaking out about something you know if you're going through a horrible breakup and you get higher you know but if
You're having a great time and you with your friends you'll probably just laugh and be silly, right? Because you're not freaking out about something. You've probably you're in a good place mentally which we should all strive to be in a good place. Yeah I have this weird psychosomatic.
Guard that developed by father was an alcoholic. And I didn't drink at all in my teens, and my 20s and mostly in my 30s. And then in my mid-30s, I started drinking wine and I love wine and I think I can handle it, and I really enjoy it. I love it, I do too. But I cannot drink hard alcohol. The minute that it touches my lips. I get severe hiccups. I mean like debilitatingly bad hiccups, really any kind of alcohol.
It's psychosomatic. I think it's completely psychosomatic. Is it makes no logical sense. Right, if the tequila touches my lip I just start hiccuping like crazy and it's like this weird protective thing that I think my brain is developed because my dad used to drink some stuff that would like, you know, make you blind.
It was like a
hundred and fifty percent proof. The guy would just chug it. I mean, it was, well, I
think there's there are whiskey connoisseurs, and there are, I mean, there are there is like, Scotch like old scotch
Does have a fantastic taste. It's got an interesting sort of an acquired taste, but there's real wine connoisseurs. Likewise incredible wine. Is it different? And I think the flavor of wine, it's like that. Ocular, it's the most delicious of all, alcohols without being sweet. I completely agree with. Yeah, it's a different thing. Like the people that say they're tequila connoisseurs, like shut up. It all tastes like shit. Some it just tastes less like shit. The great tequila tell glass shitty, it's alcohol. Yeah. And it's like
Like then there's some flavor around the alcohol. Yeah, I drink a glass of wine with a steak and it's like swine's fucking great. I totally and he puts you in a like a calm, it relaxes me. You don't like want to go drive fucking wild and crazy and getting a fight when you're drinking
wine. Exactly. And the amazing thing about wine is you can go on these Journeys. Where, like, when I first started to buy wine, I did what every knucklehead does, which is like, oh, if it's expensive it must be good, right?
And you start down that road and it's just so dumb because the amount of money that I spent on stuff that was marginal, but it had a good label and it had a good pedigree and then when you discover and you learn, like I remember like my wife's Italian. So we spent a lot of time in Italy in the summer with our kids. And when we were there, you find these incredible Italian, white chardin has okay in the summer, I'm just going to be honest with you. There is nothing better to drink it in the world.
It's better than water. If you are, like cold. It's cold. It's refreshing. It's got a great bouquet, but these bottles are 40 50, 60, 80, maybe maximum 100 euros, Max. And then you'll spend a thousand dollars on some stupid white burgundy from France and it tastes like half of it, you know, the other great example of this is like Chateau Petrus.
And, you know, I don't want to get in trouble with the Chateau Petrus guys, but I'll just be honest, those bottles cause you know, two, three, four, five, six thousand. You see some in restaurants, 19,000. I've never bought one. I've tasted it once because in Vegas, I had a host. And once he gave me a thing, he says to mouth, you can use this for, you know, like your dinner.
And I'm like, what is our cap? You know, and he's like this time, no cap. And first I was like, God, I must have
lost a lot of money on what they say, they say no Gap. So then I
said, fuck it. I'm just going to try this. So I went to Caesars and it was like four or five thousand dollars. I mean I would never buy this in an or but I got it because was free Jose, okay.
All this buildup in my mind. This is oh my God, this is going to be ethereal. It's going to be Ambrosia. It was not Ambrosia. Yeah. Whereas you can find these other ones that are made by, you know, folks that just put their entire lives into it. You taste the whole story. I just think it's incredible
but it's a weird status thing. The expensive wine. It's just like Cuban cigars really dumb? Yeah, it's a weird
thing. The real skill is being able to no price value.
And when, you know, it it's so satisfying because it's like, oh this is just delicious and then when your friends enjoy it, they're like, oh my God, this is delicious and I'm like yeah, that's 80 bucks. Yeah, how and I'm like, well, it's very hard to find. So then the the skill is like, it's funny. I'll tell you. This is how bad wine is God for me. Meaning, like I love the story, I love the people, I want to support the industry. So I I went to register for an alcohol license at the A&P
See in California really because I was tired and frustrated of trying to buy retail because you have to go through folks that have their own point of view. And I was like, well, if we just become, you know, we as in like me and a friend of mine and so we set up a thing, we set up a little, I'll see, I went, I filed the paperwork and it's called, like, you know, c.j. wine LLC. You know, my friend me and Joshua.
And we're able to negotiate directly with the wineries and were able to get it from wholesalers in Europe or in South Africa or in Australia and it just allows us to buy a bottle. Try it. If we really like it Thursday nights at my house is always poker. We serve it to our friends, they like it. Then we can buy a couple cases. I can share with my friends and you know, you get it at wholesale, it's a great little
heck, is there a limitation? Like there's a certain specific amount that you have to do? I look like,
I look
A retail store
looks like Amazon, you know. And so retail store could just buy a few
bottles, they could buy a case, they could buy a few bottles from that's a little bit harder you hit. So you have to have a more personal relationship but then the really good stuff you can buy a few cases and then, you know, pass them on to your friends and it's I think wines incredible and with this is incredible
but when I hear people that are going to open up their own wine label, I'm like, oh good lord. Look how much do you know about wine?
Like oh, I'm going to start a wine business. Like
what I went to a couple of these Wineries and I just asked them just out of like in like just explain to me how you got there and all I could think of was man, this is way too complicated. But these folks it's like animal husbandry, their breeding this Vine with this fine but then they're going to take, you know, cleave off this little bit. And so it's like bri, it's a breeding program over 10 and 20 and 30 years and it's like this is really
complicated.
Yeah, they do weird stuff like they'll splice avocado trees with with
what does that nut?
Pistachios. So, they'll take avocado trees and they splice them with pistachios to make the tree more sturdy. Leaking. Take two different species of tree and if you cut them sideways and splice them together, they'll grow
friend of mine started. A company that's making like potatoes and he makes like these ginormous potatoes like this. It's an incredible thing because like, you
The yield is through the roof and like, you know, his, his I think vision is, I'll be able to feed the world in a cheaper and more abundant way, but it's all this engineering, he hacked the chromosome of the potato. Oh my God. And and like it generates a huge potato and it generates a seed, I didn't know this, but potatoes don't have seeds in order to plant more potatoes. You chop up the potato into like quarters are eight and you stick the potato into the
Well, he's playing God and so he's
like, now this is dumb.
I need to make a huge potato and I'm going to have the potato have a seed. Then I'll just take the sea in a planet of the ground.
So when you usually do it, do you have to have that potato? And they have to soak it. So the Sprout comes out of it and then plant it. Is that what they
do? I don't know. But I mean because I've seen
that before. Yeah, I know. I've always wondered like, how they doing that?
I don't know. But he's like going after potatoes and then he wants to go after fruit. Like I'm a I love fruit.
But fruit is like tilts me because like every time I go to a store, sometimes like you'll get like their seasons were like, you know, like white nectarines and white peaches maybe like one of the most incredible fruits ever created. But if you get it in a bad season, it's just like
unedible. Yeah, they're dull their dulled, their
terrible mangoes are the same, I love mangoes. And when you see like these mangoes in the summertime, like I don't know where Europe gets their mangoes, but this is probably one of the best features of Europe. Like they have these mangoes that are just like this,
This. Well, they're organic to, they're just, they're just incredible.
Well, they still have real Tomatoes, like, you have to search for real Tomatoes here, like, if you want an heirloom tomato, that's an actual tomato. The tomatoes that we have orgies, these
freaks. You know, I am, have you ever worn glucose monitor? Because my don't know, I haven't, I wore one for 90 days and my wife, when she was younger, well, she runs a Pharma company. So she has a
Proclivity for science obviously and she's she thinks about a lot of this stuff scientifically but she also broke her back when she was 11. So she's very sensitive to inflammation. So she's hacked a lot of food so that she can minimize inflammation. I wore this thing and I was totally Blown Away the things that I thought were healthy for me. My body was like this is radioactive like what stuff? So like the way that I ate rice or quinoa,
Mwah I would have like a small amount of rice or I would have brown rice right? I have black rice. All right I have quinoa because I was like oh it's more protein it didn't really matter. It had the same my body reacted with this massive sugar Spike. The minute I cooked it off, put it in the fridge way to 24 hours and eight at the next day,
No glycemic load, whatsoever, same with potatoes potatoes, I found that pasta. If I made it more Al Dente than what I was used to no glycemic load and like the problem, that's frustrated, Dontae, meaning less cooked, less cooked has a totally different reaction in my body. Then if I make it soft and smushy, huh? So I've trained my body to have like, really, you know, Al Dente pasta, and I see that the glycemic load
Is much lower. I think just the point is, like, like the food supply in the United States. I think it's the most precarious. It's ever been. It's brutally hard to figure this out. I mean, is everybody supposed to get a glucose monitor and then figure out what little things? You know, trigger insulin spikes. Well that's not possible and then even if you do find out, how do you get it in a cheap affordable way? And I mean no wonder like everybody's, you know,
Really struggling with
this. Have you ever wondered glucose monitor when you were in
Italy? No, I wore it
here. I'd like to know because there's a difference that the way my body. I can tell you how my body
feels. If, if I take a picture like, I mean I try to work out and I take pretty detailed like, what's my BMI? What's my muscle, mass? What's my fat percentage? And I always take those readings, right before I go.
And when I look afterwards, and I don't do anything when I'm there. You know, I swim in the in the sea when I can, like when I'm on vacation or whatever, I walk a lot but nothing else. No weights, no nothing.
My muscle mass stays the same.
My fat percentage goes down. I look healthier.
And I feel really great, and all I do is I just eat. What's in front of me. I don't think about quantities, whatever. But when I'm back in the United States, so I get to be there, call it, six weeks a year, right? But when I'm back in the United States, I have to go back on lockdown because like a lot of people, you know, I had this thing. Like if you look at a picture of me and Sri Lanka, look like old Dave, Chappelle
I was like this. I was just a total stick figure.
within one year of being in North America, in this case in Canada, when you look at the school pictures, I was fat,
Clinics and difference in the food system and my parents are making the same things because they want it to have that comfort of what they were used to MMM. So I don't know if it was the food supply or not, but, you know, has to be, it has to be, it has to
be, and everybody says the same thing
and then my whole family has struggled with it, you know? So I think that there's something and then when I go now to Italy as a different reference example,
It's like, it's the best shape of my
life. Yeah, it's my, you do. Lastly, different. Even when you eat things like pizza over there, you don't feel like you ate a brick. If I ever eaten pizza here and I love it, but when I'm over, I'm like, whoa, what did you do? What did you do? Like you ate a brick? But over there, it's just food. It tastes great, the pasta doesn't bother you. Nothing bothers you. It's just whatever they're doing and it's there's many things just one of them. They're not using enriched flour. And another thing is they have heirloom flour so it hasn't been maximized 24.
The, the most amount of gluten. I'm
curious to see what Bobby does. If Trump wins in this world, make America healthy. Again, I don't exactly know what his plans are.
Yeah, what's possible? Like, how much can you really affect with regulation? How much can you really bring to light? And what, what are we going to learn about our food system? Mean even Canada. If you one of the things about the hearings that they just had was they were comparing Lucky Charms that they sell in the United States that are very brightly colored versus Lucky Charms. They sell in Canada.
Completely different looking product because Canada in Canada, it's illegal to use those dies right that we use ubiquitously, right? And those guys are terrible for you, we know they're terrible for you in Canada. Those are terrible for you, which is why they're illegal up there. The food tastes the same, it still sucks. It's still bad for you. It's still covered in sugar but at least doesn't have that fucking poison. That just makes it blue total a
red. And it is it's impossible like to teach my kids healthy eating habits, as a result of this, the food in the United.
It's it's just it's everywhere and it's beating in to you, that this is a cheap way of getting caloric intake, and it is full of just all these stuff, you can't
pronounce, it's garbage. It's all garbage, and it's, so it's so common. And then, if you're in a would, they would call a food desert, if you're in a place that only has fast food, like my God, like your odds of being metabolically healthy. If you're poor, and you're living in a place, it's a food desert. You can possible. It's fucked.
Simple as fuck, this too hard. And it's also very expensive, which is even crazier. It's so expensive to eat well and to eat like clean and make sure that you don't have any additives and garbage in your food.
Do you remember in like the 90s and 2000's? Where what we were told was fat was bad. Yeah. And like you would see sugar-free and and I would just buy it. Oh yeah sure I didn't do that sugar-free I'm doing the healthy thing here. This is great margarine margarine or then. I would see fat free.
And I'll be like, oh I'll do that. Yeah. And it turned out all this stuff was just
well it's not even it's such a small amount of people that affected that that's what's so terrifying. There's a small amount of people who bribed these scientist to falsify data so that they could blame all these coronary heart artery disease has heart disease. Has on saturated fat, when it was really sugar that was causing all these problems and we had a very
Dysfunctional understanding of Health for the longest time. The food pyramid was all fucked up. The bottom of the food pyramid was all bread and carbs, you know, it's terrible. So nuts and just made a bunch of like really sloppy humans and you could see it in the beaches, the photos from the 1960s versus look at the people in the 2000s. Have you
had Casey? And Caylee mean, so, have they're coming on? Yeah, coming on. Yeah, they have an incredible story. Should I say it? Or we could sure they have this incredible.
Story that they tell about what happened and what they say is in the 80s when you have these mergers one of the mega-mergers that happened was tobacco company with food company, there was two of them and a lot of the scientists started to focus, some of their energy on taking that skill. We'll just put that in quotes of making something very addictive and transposing it to food rights. Like okay, if I'm at RJ r-- and I'm used to making cigarettes.
How do I think about structurally building up? Something that wants you to eat more but now instead of smoking instead of a cigarette, it's a Twinkie or whatever and a lot of the food science that we have in America is built on the back of a bunch of these mega-mergers where you have the scientists go and build super quote-unquote. Addictive food. Yeah. You know, that was a failure of the obviously is a failure, the capital markets but was a failure of Public Health.
Well, it's a failure of our
Regulatory process. It's a failure of are exposing the public to this and making sure that whatever this is is label the same way cigarettes are because if you want to buy cigarettes you can buy them today but it's going to have a big warning that tells you this can kill you. Totally. And arguably sugar is probably as difficult to kick as nicotine is and as a lot of other problems,
ice
Smoked, when I was younger, I found it much easier to stop smoking, then it was for me to cut out sugar. Wow, cutting out sugar is basically impossible.
This is very hard. You encounter it everywhere. I have a friend who has diabetes and he got type 2 diabetes and he's thin my friend Duncan. And one of the things he found out is when he stopped. It was all just eating too much sugar when he stopped eating sugar. He's like oh my God. I have so much energy. Like this is what I'm supposed to feel like he had thought.
That it was just life like he's in his 40s. Now he's trying to get Sergeant. Yeah, I need a nap and he didn't realize. It was poisoning himself. Yeah, it is. That's what most people are doing. Most people out there that are drinking regular soda and they're eating candy and you're eating burgers with sugar in the bun, and bullshit, and bread, and french fries cooked in seed oils, you're just poisoning yourself.
You should fact check this because I make it the number wrong, but there was a
something that came out very recently about the percentage of the US Food Stamp system. That goes to soda. Yeah. And it was like 10 percent of the total budget or something nutty. Like it's like some ginormous amount of money is just basically giving folks sugar water. Yeah, and you wonder why now the solution is just to give everybody on the back, end of it was epic. It's also like,
let's be real. That's not food, okay.
It's something you put in your mouth, but you can't buy cigarettes with food stamps. All right, so if you buy you can't buy cigarettes in food stamps. Why should you be able to buy something that's really bad for you? I mean, what would change if we said food stamps, we're going to actually increase the amount that you get, but we're going to regulate what you can buy and you have to buy all the things from the outside of the
store. I don't even think you have to regulate it, like think of what has happened because of companies like Uber Eats and doordash as an example. What have they done?
And I'll tell you why. I think this is important. Those guys have gone out and Cloud kitchens. Those. There's three companies they have bought up every single kind of Warehouse in every part of every city and suburb in America. And what they put in there are these things that they call ghost kitchens. So that when you launch the app and a lot of the times when you get a drink from Starbucks, it's not coming from the actual Starbucks down the street. It's coming from a ghost kitchen. Why? Because
they centralize all the orders and it creates an economy of scale. Why am I telling you this? I think that there is a way for food stamps to sit on top of that infrastructure and just deliver food.
But the problem is people, especially people that don't know, or care, want that sugar
water.
Well
you know like there's the choices aren't I understand. Yeah you're going to have people that choose that Big Mac because it is
delicious and I think that they are delicious and once a year I have a Big Mac but I think if you're going to tie it to something like a government subsidy at least, the government should have a conversation with themselves that says, well we can ship them. All of this healthy food and you know, change a bunch of boundary conditions in these folks as live
Like I've seen it. I know what? It's like to be overweight. It sucks. Your self-confidence is negative 1.
The way I dress the way I felt. It just took an enormous amount of work to overcome it and you're still left with it. Then there's the physical pains, then there is the internal issues that you create for yourself. This is not a win and so, I get it that the hamburger taste good. But this is where the government I think has a responsibility to say, look, we're going to spend hundreds of billions of dollars a year. So, let's spend it in a smart way. We're not going to give you pop and soda anymore.
And we're going to start introducing.
Some fruits and vegetables, some Fiber like, why can't you do that? That's like a very reasonable thing to do. Especially if on the same hand, the other hand of the government is going to go in negotiating insulin prices and Metformin prices and and glp ones,
right? That that is the issue. Do you see what Bobby Kennedy was talking about with these GOP ones? He was comparing the amount of money spent on GOP, GOP, ones and what you could give every obese American that you could give them.
Free healthy food and a gym
membership for 10%. I think I think what Bobby said is the cost of glp one's current course. And speed would be 3 trillion dollars.
A year in an amazing just something that controls your appetite. And, and for 300 billion, you can give everybody food. By the way you can use this ghost kitchen infrastructure to give the food in a prepped way, right? So you can even make life. Super simple for them. The idea that you would spend three, we don't have three trillion to spend but we have a responsibility to make sure that people don't kill themselves with food.
But now there's an industry that's making three trillion dollars by
Giving people this GOP ones, and the problem is just like every other industry, once it starts making money, it does not want to stop
and hear either way, I think that they should be allowed to make money. But what I'm saying is in a free market, every actor is allowed to act rationally and actually what you want is everybody to have their own incentives and to Act Naturally, that's when you get the best outcome. Because if you're acting with some Shadow agenda, you're not going to necessarily
really do the right thing. So my point is in this example.
the government's job in this narrow example, is to get the best Healthcare outcome because if they're doing any form of long-term planning,
It's pretty obvious like we are hurtling to a brick wall on this Health Care issue with respect to People's Health, you don't have a solution. Yeah. The only solution cannot be to medicate and then triple and quadruple. The budget deficit that we already don't have a path to pay down,
right? Well, the only other thing that I could think is if there was some sort of a way
that would be effective at establishing discipline other than just promoting it like,
I could conceive of especially when you're dealing with something like neurolink or some sort of a new way of programming, the Mind where it just changes, whatever the behavior pattern is that accepts these Foods as choices.
Like, lobotomize your appetite. I hope you have a very distinct opiate Place, sketchy to fuck you
early. Adopt. If you want this subsidy, you need to get this
braided. Would not be a good place. That would be bad. That would be very, that's worst-case scenario best-case scenario is you just have like a national scale promotion of health and wellness, and abandonment of this body positivity nonsense. In fact, doctors and people that are telling you that
at every weight is a healthy weight, all food is food and to think otherwise is discriminatory, which you're hearing from people. And by the way, that's tough is funded and that's what people need to know. That that nonsense is actually funded. They pay people to be influencers and they're getting paid by these food companies to say these nonsense things that are scientifically factually incorrect. They're not true. It is, there it is not healthy in any way, shape, or form to be obese. And when they tell you,
You that it's healthy, you can be metabolically healthy and still how fast? It's okay, it's not okay, it's not okay, that's just not true and is that fat shaming? I don't you can call it whatever the fuck you want, but it doesn't change what it does to the human body and it doesn't make someone better. If you don't make them feel bad about being
robustly unhealthy. Well, it's a, it's an enormous disservice to folks, if we don't expose an alternative path,
Okay, we're spending this much money. We spent so much money in all kinds of random stuff. Like just a simple example that we saw this past week, fifty billion dollars spent between rural broadband and Chargers. We have no rule broadband and we have three Chargers now, that's that. This is the, this is the data that's 50 billion. So, okay, that's not the 300 billion that common that what you mean by that. So there was a
So in Congress, when they come together to pass these bills, sometimes what happens is there's a lot of horse trading, right? And you get what's called a Christmas tree bill which is like everybody gets to hang something off, the Christmas tree. And the crazy part of the United States, is these little bubbles. Now, here are 10 billion year, 50 billion there, whatever. So we we passed a few years ago, something that was meant to.
Get rural Broadband into thousands of people's homes and initially. It was given to SpaceX and starlink specifically
and then I think it was pulled back and they said, you know what, there's a better quote unquote, better way to do it,
And there's other folks that decided that the better option would just be to like lay fiber. Now, I'm just going to this is not a judgment. I'm just going to show you something. The thing is, like, if you are like in Kansas from here, okay? Between here, in Kansas is like a big distance, right? It's like this when you're in orbit is just here, right? It's just infinitely shorter distance. So
just at a practical level solving that problem technically is way better through satellites fine. They make, I think what was the right decision, they unmake it and so they say we're going to go and figure out a way to lay fiber, whatever they've laid zero fiber. So there's these thousands of people that were promised Broadband that you can get for basically a thousand or a hundred bucks a month or less now. And instead, they're spending upwards of thousands and thousands per home in
Delivered, any isn't it? Isn't it like, forty two billion dollars that's 42. Yeah. And then the other example was a seven billion dollar program to install EV Chargers 7 billion and they've managed to install three.
So all I'm saying is if you add the two together that 50 billion that's one sixth of what Bobby Kennedy was talking about, in terms of giving people organic fruit. So maybe we can't give everybody organic food, but you can get tens of millions of people, right? Start with the 40 million people that's on snap. You can get maybe 10 million of those people get them, organic food right away. So there's all of this waste. Yeah. All we got to do is just like focus a little bit, take some of these dollars that are just like
Like falling into the seat. Cushions it seems like and just reallocate it somewhat intelligently into the things that really matter.
It seems worse than falling into the seat. Cushions. If it's 42 billion people and none of them are received in an access
that's really to forty two billion dollars. Nobody's
got, I should say, I used the starlink mini this past week in Utah, in the mountains. It's amazing. It's amazing. It's the size of this book. It's amazing. It's crazy. It literally fits in a small lab.
Top case, my friend couldn't believe. That was it. I was like this is it? I Gotta Wear this plug it in. I got a very early
one and I used to carry it around in a laundry basket.
It was incredible and then when you see what they've done in a couple of years from this thing, that was a little bit bulky. It is so beautiful and simple and you know you've seen it. You just plug it in and it auto starts to rotate figures out where it is. Yep, the app comes up, it shows you this, you know speed and then you're just going and I've used it in all kinds of situations like where, you know I'm traveling I bring it with me, it's never failed. And then I think, man,
This is like it's 100 bucks. It's less than a hundred bucks, it's crazy. And then you know in a year or two, you'll be able to run your cell phone over this thing. Yeah, this is
crazy. Yeah, in the year to it'll probably be straight to your cell phone and you won't need that dish anymore. But right now the dish is a small iPad and you just sit it down in a field and we plug the cord to it and but you don't even have to have a chord it is a battery that comes with it.
So how much do you think it really takes to give every American just a start?
Tish pretty fucking cheap, it's very
cheap. Well, wouldn't be 42 billion. I can guarantee, by the
way, the cost the cost of that would basically fall through the floor. If you put in an order for 50 million of these units. Right, you know, right SpaceX would make them for like 8 bucks, right? You know what I mean? Like,
it's fast internet to, which is even crazier. Yeah.
Yeah, there's all of this stuff that we should do. We just need a few folks.
I don't know that can either course correct or just can shine a light on it? I mean, it's like it's like this thing where I'm like so optimistic married to enormous fear and like, you know, just like a little
I kind of go back and forth between
these well that let me paint the ultimate dystopian solution. The ultimate diss. Total part of our problem is we have we have corruption. We have what you were talking about with deals sort of like you know the border wall deal had money in it for Ukraine. Like there's all these weird deals there's bills that don't make any sense like how did you add all this stuff and why is this 2000 Pages? How many people signed it actually read it?
AI government, AI government solves. All those problems. AI government is not corrupt. AI government just works. Literally for the people and instead of having all these state representatives and all these bullshit artists that pretend to be working on their truck and they don't know what the fuck they're doing is just doing it for an ad, you know, of any of that anymore. Now, everything is governed with AI, the problem is who's controlling the AI. And is there some sort of an ultimate regulatory body that make sure that the AI is, I think, biased or tainted.
I think there's
A step before that, which is a lot more palatable. I think the thing with I thought about your version and the problem that you stayed is the key problem. Which is how is this model trained, right? Who got their hands on that core stuff, the weights in the values of that who decides, right? And at some point, there's going to be there or not, they're going to there is already today, in AI models, a level of human override. It's just a natural facet of how these things are. There's a way to
Reinforce the learning based on what you say and what I say it's a key part of how an AI model becomes smart. It starts off as primordial and then Joe and Jim off and all these other people are clicking and saying, yes, that's a good answer. Bad answered asked this question, all this stuff?
Who are those people? So right and it could be gamed as well, right? Leaky, I think, organized, I think at scale, we haven't figured out. We haven't seen it yet, but it will be, when the incentives are that high and we've seen
distortions, right? Like, the, the Gemini AI that was there were asked to make Nazi soldiers, they bathe these multiracial Nas, Nazi soldiers and that kind of stuff where it's just like, who are the founding fathers? It's all there's a black guy. Like, here's a Chinese lady. Like okay, we get it, you're not racist.
But this is you're being
crazy, but you're distorting the
brass. Exactly. When you're talking specifically history, we, one of them was like, a Native American woman was a Nazi soldiers. Like this is so nuts. So, that, that is a problem is in that AI is not clean, right? It is got the greasy Fingerprints of modern civilization on it and all of our bizarre ideologies.
But there's a step before at that, I think can create a much better government. So it's possible today, for example,
Understand. Have you ever done a renovation on your house? Yes. Okay, so you make plans, you go and, you know, your architect, probably pays an expeditor to stand in line and in city hall, there's a person that goes and reviews that plan. They give you a bunch of handwritten, markups based on their understanding of the building code. You can't use this lead pipe. You need to use aluminum this Windows too small. All this stuff you come back, you revise. You go do this two or three times on
average to do a renovation and then they issue your permits.
Now, in a I can actually just ingest. All the rules. Knows exactly what's allowed and what's not allowed and they can take your picture and instantly tell you. Joe fix these 19, things, you fix those things, you go to the city, you can show that it maps to all the rules so you can streamline government. You can also point out where they're making decisions that don't map to what the rules say.
That's I think is going to be a really important First Step because it allows us to see where maybe this administrative state has grown unwieldy. Mmm, where you got to knock some of this stuff back and clean up some of the cruft because there's rules on top of rules and one conflicts with the other. I bet you there are things on the books today that are like that. 100% there we have no way of knowing right, you know, but I do think in a I can tell you these things and say just pick which one its way or its be
And I think that that starts to cut back, a lot of the difficulty in just making progress, right? You know,
you know, one of the things that I thought was extraordinary that Elon was getting pushed back on was his idea of making the government more efficient and that auditing the the various programs and finding out how to make them more efficient. And a lot of people really freaked out about that and their main freak out.
Out the main argument from intelligent people that I saw was, what are you going to, do you going to fire all these people that are in charge of government? The, I don't think that's the answer for it ineffective. Government is to let the same people do the same thing because otherwise you have to fire them. That sounds insane. And to say that the government as as efficient as is humanly possible or even close to it, No One Believes that no rational person believes that everyone believes in bureaucracy. Everyone.
Is a
lot of nonsense going on. Everyone believes that like look at the difference between what Ilan has been able to accomplish with SpaceX versus what? NASA has been doing recently? Look at the difference between what they're able to accomplish with starlink versus this forty two billion dollar program. That yielded zero results. Look at the difference between all these different things that are done in the private sector. When there's competitive Marketplace strategies, like you have to figure out a way to get better.
ER and more efficient and you can't afford to have a bunch of people in your company that are doing nothing and that are creating red tape and creating Bureau making things harder to progress. That's bad for the business. That's the argument for letting private companies. Take over
things, by the way, I think that what and just to build on what you're saying, people jump to this conclusion that like government shouldn't exist. It's not some anarchic thing. Where like governments actually very
Don't they create incentives. And then those of us in Private Industry, go out and try to meet those incentives, or take advantage of them. That's a very normal, okay? And a well, functioning government creates very good incentives. An incredible example of this is in the 1950s.
Do you know what? The GDP of Singapore was no. It was the same as the GDP of Jamaica.
And then you fast forward, seven years. And you understand what? Good governance looks
like. We actually were talking about Singapore yesterday, how extraordinary efficient their recycling program is so unbelievable. Yeah, I mean, it's really amazing what they do. Like they really recycle, they recycle how we think we're recycling. They really do. They really separate the plastic, they break it up. They use it to make Power. These it to make Road materials, they make building materials out of it. They reuse
everything.
They were thrust into a spit of land, with no natural resources, they have to become incredibly well-educated and industrious. And so, you know, Lee Kuan Yew was able to create the right incentives for government to do a good job. They pay their civil servants, incredibly well, but then also for Private Industry to show up and do the rest and it works incredibly
You can do that in the United States. The thing that we would benefit a lot from is if we could just point out all the ways in which, like, there's either too many laws or laws are conflicting,
You can at least have a conversation about batting those back. And the second is, if you, if you look inside of private Equity, there is one thing that they do, which I think the government would hugely benefit from it. It's called zero based budgeting and this is an incredibly powerful, but boring idea.
What private Equity does, when they buy a company, some of them the best ones. They'll look at next year's budget. And if they say, what should the budget be? Well, guess what's going to happen? During your company. Everybody runs and says, I need X for this, y for that Z for this, and you have this budget. That's just ginormous instead. What some of the best private act Equity. Folks, do is say, we're starting with zero.
Next year's budget is 0. We're spending nothing. Now let's build it back up meticulously block by block. So somebody comes in. Okay, what is it exactly that you want to do?
I want to build an interface that allows a is they start saying something like that though. Okay. What do you want to do? I want to upgrade the factory so that we can make a more High you. Okay, done your and how much do you need? Okay, one by one by one, and if you go and you do that inside the government, what you probably would find is that same group of people would probably enjoy their job, a lot more
They'd actually be their hands would be on the controls in a much more directed way. We'd spend a lot less because a lot of this stuff probably just goes by the wayside and we don't even know, you know. And people would just be more able to go and work. You could do what you wanted to do. I could do what I wanted to do. You on, could do what he wants to do. There was a thing. I tweeted it out today.
He cannot get the FAA to give him a flight permit for Starship five and six.
So they're waiting on dry docks right there, Slow Rolling the approval, right? He's or it takes it, it takes him less time to build these Starships now than it does to get government approval, that's what he said. Meanwhile, the FCC, which is a sister organization to the FAA fast-tracked, the sale of 220 radio stations in part to some folks that were foreign entities.
Right before an election that touch like 160 million Americans. When you look at that you would say how can some folks
Cut through all the red tape and get an answer quickly. How can other folks be waiting around for something that just seems so obvious? And so exceptional for America and there's no good answer.
I don't I don't know what the answer is.
I don't think any of us. No, no. And then there's this folks that are stuck in space. Meanwhile, there's these two people stuck in space. Yeah.
And and Jamie said they were supposed to be there for how long 8
hours.
There were supposed to be there for eight hours, we supposed to be quick, and they've been there for months, they're going to be there till
February. That's so
insane.
They're going to be there to how terrifying must that
be. I mean I for maybe you and me
eight days. This was there for eight
days.
I think for I think I would freak out on a percent. I think
they would do, how do you not?
Well, I read this article where they interviewed them. Now this could be the party line. I don't know, but they're like, this is great. It's my natural place. Oh, happy.
Lord, I can't believe that. I had a friend of mine. Who's what? They say them to themselves. Keep from going
crazy. Well, yeah, friend of mine went to space. The founder of Cirque du Soleil, Gilli birthday and he brought a super-high already over.
But I still going. No, it's still going on says it until February 21st. Yeah. February 12 to happen. Yeah.
We're stuck in. Space is like it ended up spending, that's great. Well, that's just more a, I could. Wow, yeah. It could be way more. It could be way, way more. That's weird that AI is. That's another flaw with a, I right. It would read it like that. What the incentive is for AI to Lodi about that? How does a? I not know, it's not 2025 yet.
Now we're stuck in space until February of 2025. Well, that's all. That's just a straight
up here. That's a weird error though. It is a week. Yeah.
But these poor people, you know, and
my so my friend that was up there. Said it was incredible. He has this funny story where he was a smoker still is a smoker but this was like 20 years ago. So he was going up on like a soyuz rocket and he shows up, I guess in Siberia is where they do the launches.
Has and he was really stressed out because he had to stop smoking. Stop drinking, something, the cosmonauts are smoking.
Oh no. They're like, oh, it's totally fide or
they smoke and smell. No, no, no. I'm saying on the ground while they were trading. Oh boy. So they go up. He does eight days. He comes back down. He took these incredible high res pictures of like all the parts of the earth. He said it was the most incredible thing but you know when you get back he's like I was ready to get back. Did you
see this latest report?
Or there's like, real controversy about some finding that the James Webb Telescope has discovered and there's some talk of some large object asteroid moving towards us. That's course
correcting. Yeah, this is the weird part about it
and there's all these meetings and so all the the kooky UAP people are all over it saying disclosure is eminent, this is there's a mother ship headed towards us so it gets fun, I don't know what they mean.
Mean, by course correcting. What does that mean? And how do they know? It wasn't impacted with something else that diverted
it. It could have been that example than the gravitational fields. It sure
orbital path, but they're not telling anybody there's something going on. Do you think they would tell people like imagine if there was a giant chunk of Steel of iron rather that's headed towards
us? That's a great question. I think the question is, what would we do? If we
knew, do we have the capability of moving that thing?
Ng.
Would the FCC. Wait, five months to give Ilan the cute
probably spent send as many. But see the I mean it's all a physics
problem at the right. It's also a problem of breaking it up. If it breaks up, then you have smaller pieces that are hitting everywhere. Side of all the way our
chunk isn't, isn't this like the perfect reason. Why being multiplanetary just makes a lot of sense. Sure. Like in any like, for example, would you get on an airplane? If they said, Hey Joe, this is the best airplane in the world is the most
incredible. It's the loop most luxurious. It has the best weather. You can surf you can. But there's only one navigation system and if it goes up, but
never do that, right?
Would you ever get on that airplane? No. No. So, you know, I think we owe it to ourselves to have some redundancy. Yeah, but ultimately, I always wonder, you know,
like the universe sort of has these patterns that Force Innovation and constantly move towards further and further.
They and if you were going to have intelligent life that existed on a planet, what better incentive to get this intelligent life to spread to other parts of the planet than to make that planet. Volatile, make super volcanoes earthquakes, solar flares, all sorts of different possibility, asteroid impacts. All sorts of different possibilities that motivate this thing to
spread but the say like this is fragile. Yeah, and it's not forever so create some
London. See, I mean
I was raised Buddhist. I'm not that religious in that way, but I'm kind of weirdly spiritual in this other way, which is, I do think the universe is basically, it's littered with answers.
He has got to go on find out what the right questions are so to your point like are all these natural phenomena on Earth. You know the question is okay if that's the answer. Well the question is like, do we want to be a single planet species or do we want to be? Do we want to have some built-in redundancy and you know, maybe 100 years from now that builds on top of what happens in the next five. Well I've discovered all kinds of different planets that's that's in
Amazing thing undergone
unquestionably unquestionably and we also know that there's planets in our immediate vicinity that used to be able to Harbor life like Mars. We know that Mars was covered in water and Mars had a sustainable atmosphere. So we know that this is not just a dream. This is possible that what we're experiencing here on Earth is temporary and if we get hit by something big, what we know Earth was hit by a planet and its formation. There was Earth one and Earth to the formation of the Moon.
In the primary theories that we were hit by another planet. And that's why we have such a large moon, it's a chords outside quarter, the size of Earth, it's like keeping our atmosphere stable and keeping art. It's a wild Shooting Gallery out there really is and especially our our particular solar system has a massive asteroid belt just like 900,000 near-earth
objects. But isn't that so like inspiring like this idea of like
Ring. All these other questions that we don't know yet to even ask right that is a life. Well lived
yes that's the most promising aspect to a hyper intelligent AI in my opinion that it will be able to solve problems that are inescapable to us and also offer us like real hard data about how big of a problem this is. And when this needs to be solved by and then come up,
Up with actionable Solutions. Yeah. And that seems to be something that might Escape us as biological entities with limited Minds especially we're not working together and you could get AI to have the accumulated, power mind, power of everyone, you know, 10x
the the mental model is if an alien showed up today would humans by and large, drop all of their internal issues and
It together.
Perhaps, Perhaps I would, I would hope that the answer would be. Yes. It would have to be something that showed such overwhelming superiority that it shut down all of our military systems and did so openly to the point where we're, like, we're really helpless against this thing. Well, so I think that one way to think about AI is that it is a supernatural system in some ways.
So, if we can just find a way to cooperate and harness, this and see the bigger picture. I think we'll all be better off like again, like killing each other.
It's just so barbarically unnecessary, it doesn't solve anything. All it does is just makes more anger. It creates more hatred because the what's left over is not positive.
And I think that we need to be reminded of that somehow without actually living the experience.
Yes, my hope is that one of the things that comes out of AI and the advancement of society through this is the allocation of resources much more evenly and that we use AI as I'm saying before. The best way to keep people from entering into this country is to make all the other places as good as this country. This country that's
Solve all the problems for everybody. And you don't have this one place where you can go to, to get a job or you go over there and you get murdered.
Well, so that I think that, you know, wire or a lot of people coming to America. A lot of the reasons, some are clearly political persecution, but a lot of the other reasons, our economic to your point. And so if you can create economic abundance generally in the world,
That's I think what people want most people want as you said before a good job, they want to come in and feel like they can point to something and say I made that wonderful proud of that they want to. Hopefully get married. Have some kids, have fun with them, teach them what they were all about and you know, then our swan song Swan Song and we all kind of internal get reborn or
not, isn't it interesting that the idea of people not getting together in groups and killing people? They don't know. That's Utopia that like,
That is some sort of
ridiculous
pie-in-the-sky vision of the possibility of the future of humanity, where that's common in small groups, like even in cities. I mean, there's individual murders and there's crimes in cities but cities aren't attacking other cities and killing everybody, right? So there's something bizarre about Nations and there's something bizarre about the the uneven application.
Haitian of resources and possibilities and, you know, your, your economic hopes, your dreams, your aspirations being achievable, pretty much everywhere. If if we did that, I think that might be the way that we solve most violence are the most horrific nonsensical
violence. So, and you have this data point, I said this before, but the most important thing that has happened
is that in the last four or five years is we have severely curtailed the likelihood of War,
In the nominal sense, I think Trump was able to basically draw a hard Red Line in the Sand on that stuff.
And the underlying reason was because we had enough economic abundance where the incentives to go to war fell.
We had just a complete Rebirth of domestic hydrocarbons in America, whether you agree with it or not. My point is, it is quite clearly correlated in the data as we were able to produce more stuff. So, economic abundance, we had less need to go and fight with external parties.
So I do think you're right. Like this, reduces it down to. We need to find ways of allocating this abundance more broadly to more countries. Meanwhile that one crazy thing that you can't unwind and go back from you can just never go there and you just have to make sure nobody believes that that is Justified.
Because in a nuclear event, I think that, that's not what happens. Clearly,
I saw this brilliant discussion that you had, were you explaining that Trump is the wrong messenger, but many of the things that he did actually were very positive, right? And I think that is a, it's a very difficult thing to describe. It's a very difficult thing to express to people because
Cuz any were so polarized. A particularly with a character like Trump, that so polarizing. It's very difficult to attribute, anything to him, that is positive, especially if you're a progressive or if you're on the left, if you've been a lifelong Democrat or if you're involved in Tech or if I mean it's this bizarre denial of basic reality. The reality of what? What can you see based on? What
What was put in place? What actions were taken? What were the net
benefits? When I've always been a liberal?
And I think I should Define what liberalism used to mean it used to mean absolutely no war and it used to mean free speech and it used to mean, you know supportive, a government that was supportive of Private Industry, try your best. Go out there will look out for you, come back to us if things go Haywire. That's an incredible view of the world and
I think what happened was when I was given a choice.
I would vote Democrat or I would support Democrats because I thought that that's what they stood for and I didn't really understand Trump. And so what happened was I got too caught up in the messenger.
And I didn't focus enough on the message.
And I didn't even realize that I didn't realize it in 2016, but I don't, I don't think many people did and then in 2020, I got lost in it.
But probably by 21 or 22.
I started to see all this data and I said, hold on, I am not being a responsible adult, the way that I Define responsibility. I am not looking at this data from first principles, and I need to do it. And when I did, what I saw was a bunch of decisions that turned out to be pretty smart. The problem is that, because he's the vessel, he turns off so many people with his delivery.
Ivory.
And I think this is a moment where the stakes are so high. You have to try to figure out what the message is versus what the messenger is saying, or look to somebody else that can tell you the message in a way that maybe will allow you to actually listen to it. That could be JD Vance. It could be Elon, Musk could be RFK. There's all kind Tulsi gabbard. There's all kinds of surrogates now because I think that they have realized that there's a lot of value in these messages.
Has.
We need to have multiple Messengers. Yes. So that folks don't get tilted and go upside down so that the minute one person walks in the room and I had to challenge myself to go through that process and at the end of it I'm like wow, he's the only Main Line candidate here that will not go to war. And just on that point it's like very unique times creates strange. Bedfellows is sort of like one thing that kind of like always like pops out at me. Like why are they
They working together. Why are they cooperating? I always think like, what's going on here? And when I saw him and Bobby aligned, you know, Bobby is a very balanced view of Donald Trump. Here's the good, here's the bad. Even now, even with everything that's on the line for Bobby and Bobby's agenda, he's quite honest about Donald Trump's
Positives and negatives.
But they both get along.
And one of the things and probably the most important thing, where they were sounding the drum from day, one is under under no circumstance, will the United States go to war? I just think we should observe that people should have an opinion on
that he's so polarizing that he, there's been two attempted assassinations on him and
knows, I can reel in The Matrix. He's like, dodging, his much for now, you know.
Yeah, but listen, no one can dodge forever.
But the thing is it's like no one seems to care that the rhetoric is ramped up so hard and is been so
distorted. The other thing that people need to, I think, think about is the domestic policy. Agenda of both the Democrats and the Republicans are within error bars. And what I mean by that is when push comes to shove, they both whether it's Kamala Harris or Donald Trump.
They have to work through a very sclerotic Congress, which means that very little will ultimately get done. If you just look at the track record of all these past presidents, you typically get one piece of landmark legislation passed in your first two years.
And it all just gets Unwound. It's happened from Clinton onwards. You know, bush had one bite at the Apple. Obama had one bite at the Apple. Trump had one bite at the Apple. Biden had one bite at the Apple.
So, the American political system has a really incredible way of like insulating itself.
So if people would just take a step back and look at that, a lot of the policy, agendas that both of them espouse are going to be very hard to get done. They'll be one thing, you know, maybe they both do something on, you know, domestic, taxation. Maybe they both do something on the border, but the likelihood based on the past is that they'll get one of these things done and then not much will be done.
This is why I think folks then need to think about, okay. What are the super presidential Powers than where they can act alone?
One area where they can act alone is they can issue executive orders.
And that can direct the behavior of governmental agencies.
Okay, so people should decide what they think about that. Do you want a muscular American bureaucracy? Do you want a more slim down, one? Do you want one? That has, you know, a bigger, Ambitions more teeth? Do you want one? That is zero, based budget adopted, they're pretty Stark on those things.
And then foreign policy I think you know, one Camp is much more in the view that you know we are the world's policeman and there's a responsibility that comes with that and one says, we got a lot of problems at home, we're not getting pulled into something abroad.
And I think people need to decide about that. But other than those two threshold issues, my honest opinion, is that there's, you know, we're, we're in error bars between the two of them, one will cut taxes by this much one will increase taxes by that much.
But there is
real decisions that have been made during the body Administration about the border that are affecting people or lack thereof. Well, I think it's a decision, I don't think it's a lack thereof especially the flying people in and the utilization of an app to fly people in that seems insane. Like the whole thing seems insane and I don't know what the motivation is. I've talked to people that know a lot about the construction business and they believe the motivation is cheap labor. I think that's part of it.
And that a lot of the problem is in many Industries, the lack of cheap labor and people that are willing to do jobs. It's one of the things that I've heard, you know, there's a lot of criticism about all the Haitians that have moved to Springfield Ohio. One of the positive things that I've heard from people that live there is, is these people are hard workers and they're willing to do jobs that the the other people weren't willing to take on. So you you have pros and cons but you have this incentivized effort to move people into this country illegally which
Will undoubtably bring in people that you don't want here, gang members, cartel members, terrorist has, that's real and we've documented that and there's people who have been arrested that we're trying to come in that were terrorists and there's people that have gotten through, for
sure. I think that if I give both of them, the benefit of the doubt, I think both of them will have to act on the border. I think that Donald Trump has had a clearer view of this issue for much far longer. I think that Kamala has had to shift her position to make herself more palatable to
Tourists, but I do think that both of them will probably have to act because I don't think what's happening today is sustainable. I don't think it is either,
but the fear and elon's talked about this, the real fear is that they're bringing these people in give them a clear path to citizenship, which will allow them to vote, and then you've essentially bought their vote. So if the Democrats bring them in and sent devised them to become Democrats, and vote, and give them money, which
They clearly are doing they give it an EBD cards and they're giving them housing and they're giving things that they're not getting giving to Veterans and poor people in this country. At that seems to be an incentive to get these people to want to be here. And also to appreciate the people that gave him that opportunity, which is you would essentially in swing states, which is Ohio, what's one of them you, if you can get a lot of people in there and you've given them a better life because of your policies, those people, if you give them the opportunity to vote, they're going, especially if there are like
Limited low information voters, they're going to vote for the party that got them to America.
I mean, I yeah, I have I don't know whether it's a
Conspiracy per se meaning but I do agree with the outcome. Meaning I remember very vividly. We my parents took up the whole family, three of us myself and my two sisters to Niagara Falls and then we cross the border to Buffalo and we applied for Refugee status in America as well. We didn't get it, we were rejected and when
We went back. We got a tribunal Hearing in Ottawa where I grew up and I remember that it was in front of this Magistrate Judge of the person comes in with the robes and the hair and everything and you sit there and they hear it the other wigs up there all of it. Yeah.
And then and then they sit there and they hear your case out and my father had to defend our whole family.
Here's, you know what our life was like. Here's what we did. And I remember just crying from the minutes, tarnishes. That's all I did to told them a seared in my mind because like, you know, your life is right there. It's like a crucible moment for your whole family. If they're like, I don't buy it off. You go, we go back and I don't know what would have happened.
Fortunately, obviously it worked out.
And then you know, you go through the process. I became a Canadian citizen that I moved to the United States, get on a Visa then I become an American citizen. I have an enormous
Loyalty to this country. And so, when I think about like Americans not getting what they deserve before, other folks, it really does touch me in a place. Like, I get very agitated about that idea. It's not that those folks shouldn't be taken care of, in some way, shape, or form. Because I was one of those people that needed a little bit of a safety. Net, right? We needed welfare, we needed the, you know, the places to go in to get the free clothes and all that stuff.
But you have to sort of take care of all of the people that are putting in the effort and the time to be here and followed the rules and stood in line, like when I came to the United States, man, I came on a TN Visa. It's every year you had to get it, renewed, you have to show up. And if the person that was looking at you such moth out, you're gone Joe.
Then I had to transfer to an H-1B visa. My company had to show that there wasn't an American that could do this job.
And we then we were able to show that. So I've lived this experience of an immigrant following, the rules and just methodically and patiently waiting and hoping and the anxiety that comes with that because it comes with tremendous anxiety. If you ask people that were on H-1B, is in America, there was a website. I don't even know if it exists anymore but we would check
What, you know because when you apply for a green card, you get an application date and and I would sweat that website every other week. Hey did they update that? And it would be like four years in the past and I'm like, I'm never going to get my green card, my Visa is going to expire. I'm gonna have to move back to Canada, but I still play by the rules.
So I just think it's important to recognize that. There are a lot of folks that play by the rules that are immigrants to this country. There are a lot of people that were born here that have been playing by the rules and I think we owe it to them to do the right thing for them as well.
And then try to do the right thing for some folks that are coming across the border because there probably are. Some of them legitimately are escaping some really bad stuff.
Quite a lot of them quite a lot of and I'm sure most of those people are people that just want a better opportunity and that's a great thing and that's a great thing. But you have to take care of God people here, especially the veterans and then especially these people that have been struggling in these inner cities that have dealt with the red lining and all the Jim Crow laws that have
I've set them back for decades and decades, and the Never Been corrected. There's never been any effort to take these places that have been economically fucked since the beginning of the 20th century and correct. It and instead, you're dumping all this money into people that have illegally, come here that to me is where it starts looking like a
conspiracy. I think that as long as people can explain what they're doing for these other folks that you just mentioned, I think for a lot of people for 50 percent of the population
That leans read on this topic, you could at least explain to them, right? The problem is that, there is no explanation. There is 150 thousand dollar, you know, home credit that Gavin Newsom was about to give, I think he vetoed it, I could be wrong,
but was wildly
unpopular, but that bill somehow gets to his desk and is there a bill that says, we should have better food for the food, deserts did that bill get back?
Past. So there's clearly a way for, you know, state legislators to do what's right on behalf of the folks in their state
so, if we just had a little bit more balance,
and then if we were able to shine a light on those things,
a lot of the people that live here that contribute would feel better.
About where things were going and wouldn't feel like the whole thing is just rigged,
right? Well, that's one of the things that people are so excited about with this. Trump Union with Tulsi gabbard and Robert Kennedy is that you're having these movements that seem to be almost impossible to achieve outside of an of an outsider like the make America healthy again concept. Like what are you talking about? You're going to go up against these companies that have been donating to these political parties forever. And of
Allowed them to have these regulations that are allowing them to have these dyes and food that's illegal in our neighboring Canada. Like what? This is, a no one's done that before, right? So that's very exciting. Okay, so but again messenger
message messenger message. Just take a step back though.
and if you were just at the average Joe citizen,
I think an important thing to just notice is
Why are all these totally different people?
Acting as a team.
I just think it's an interesting thought question for I'm not I don't have an answer and I'm not going to plant an answer, but just ask yourself, like, why are all of these people cooperating, and I think
The 2024 election is a lot about the traditional approach to governance.
And a very radical reimagining of government and I think that's what effectively will get decided. The traditional approach says, we're going to create robust policies, we're going to work sort of top-down you know this muscular foreign policy muscular domestic policy. The government's going to play a large part of the economy and we're going to try to right some wrongs.
the radical reimagining says,
we're going to go back to a more founding notion of this country. We're going to have a very light, governmental infrastructure. We are going to cut back a bunch of the rules.
And we're going to take a little bit of a step back on foreign policy so that we don't end up in a situation. We can't pull back from
in that lens. It's very different in the lens of actual policy. I honestly think that it's pretty much six of one half a dozen of the other but in that first lens there they're really markedly different choices. And you know we'll see
what the lens that you're describing. The thing that distorts everyone's vision is Donald Trump as a human being. That's the thing it's and it's also the media's depiction of him, which I think the
grossly distorted and I think that, you know, I've met him and spend time
With him. I've also had lunch with Kamala. She's very kind, very nice person. Donald Trump very funny, very kind, very polite.
Like, he talks to you.
And I just was like, wow, this is like totally and exactly what you said I was like, I was expecting something totally different. And I think though, that the part at the core part of what, where the media goes crazy, I think I'm guessing is that there's a part of me as well. That's like an Entertainer. I mean, he's better than he's as good as any comedian.
Yeah, he's on point. He's got sink like he's got rhythm he knows how to land he. So there's a thing that he's doing when he's onstage which for the audience I think is no different than going to a show or a Revival or something, you're seeing a star, right?
But then, if you're looking at him as Donald Trump, the person, I think the media Grilli gets out of Dick. They get tilted.
Well not only that, they've distorted who he is whatever. Flaws Donald Trump has are nothing in comparison to the media's depictions of him.
And everybody's got flows his. I think our Pace exist and are well described but I do think that they I think there's like a couple of good.
Examples. You know, one example that bothered me was the Charlottesville press conference.
When I first heard the media depiction of it, I was really upset because of what I thought he said, right? Turned out, he didn't say it. Exactly. In fact, not only, did he not say it? He said the exact opposite, right? And then I was really frustrated and a little bit angry because I thought he was never lying to me. The filter was lying to me, right? And I'm not paying for those people to lie to me, I'm paying for them to actually
Ali, give me the transcript of it so that I can decide for myself. I think that's part of a responsibility of being a cogent
adult, and the only repercussions of them lying is a lack of trust that people have for them now.
And so then they make their own bed, you know. They dig their own grave a little bit because it's the I think the trust in the mainstream media is the lowest it's ever been. I think way more people trust you you know way more people trust us to tell a version of what we think is happening because
You're, you're not going to lie and you're like interested in just showing the clips and then just debating. What did he mean? What did he say? Why did he say this? Why did he say that? By the way that the same goes for Kamala because now, you know, the the domestic political Machinery is going to try to characterize her as well. Cherry-pick comments, she says. So my point is, I think we have to suspend his Providence, not balanced
like, particularly look at the debate where they fact check. Check. Check Trump multiple.
Times. But they did in fact,
check her. Did I read this? Is this a is this true or not? But the the co-host was her sorority sister. Yes, that is true. Yes. I
mean, well not, not just that but there's the affidavit by the person from ABC that she said she was aware of the questions and that she was told that there were certain things are going to be off topic or off off limits, like her record as a DA and also some other person that
Attached to that it's involved in something shady and then on top of it, there was things that she said that we're absolutely untrue. One of them. The most one of the grossest ones. Was she saying that we don't have any troops deployed in combat zones? Have you ever seen that one? Where the troops in the combat combat zone are going? What the fuck are we doing here? And then Dan Crenshaw, see if you can find an crenshaw's, post on Instagram, he
he's in a cell with one.
Yeah, I mean, that's a guy who understands the consequences of
War, right, clearly paid the price personally for serving it on his Instagram. He laid out how many troops are in active combat zones. It's tens of thousands in multiple combat zones of American citizens.
I mean, look, I was trying to be charitable when I said that. Like I think that there's like I'm going to assume that both people are smart. They believe what they believe. They're both trying to do what they think is, right?
Right, they both want to win. Okay, let's take that off the table for a second. The filters that then try to give them that message will try to pervert that truth for their own best interest. And I think what they have decided the mainstream media is their best interest or better serve through one, IE Kamala and less. Well, served through another IE. Donald Trump? Yes. So if there's ever been a moment where it's time for all of us to show up and be a, you know, grown up.
Try to get the source material. Try to think about things from first principles.
I'm telling you it is the most consequential election of our lifetime. And the simplest reason why is that the president decides to hit the button on the nuclear football
So just imagine for one second irrespective of what your politics is.
Who do you want?
To hold that thing.
What do you want them to do under even the most excruciating pressure in the world?
And I think what we want to find is someone at least in that very narrow moment.
Will be a JFK like decision.
I will block everybody else out.
It is entirely about my desire and wish for how I want America to be known. And I'm going to protect my children and my grandchildren. You cannot touch the button. You can't get close to the button. I think we're a lot closer than people think.
I think we are to thank you very much for being here, man. This is really fun. I really enjoyed it. Thanks. I know you're very busy, so I really appreciate your time. Is there a lot of it was an honor for me as well. Thank you, thank you. Alright, hi everybody.
