This was one of the biggest days of my podcast. In Korea must magic of Naval
ravikant of all rabid, hamster, ball ramakant, founder
of Zen Gillette daily Bond novel, ravikant America, the founder of Angel list, which is a giant business that mean Global. I wonder if you've ever thought of that reality, if your parents didn't leave India and go to the US, how would your life be different according to you?
The first time I use an Apple computer, it was an old Macintosh. I just fell in love with it at some point. If you have high Agency, New will end up where you're meant to go. Is this going to take?
Take some
effort, did it, do anything for your mind
kind of sometimes have these near-death exercises where it's just? Like, I imagined myself dying. It's like, you can see things fading out, they call orgasm the petite, more of The Little Death, right. Did you ever smoke weed? You know, I live in California. Well, the common belief now is that like mushrooms are harmless, right? They're not
Do you miss your childhood? I don't have it. It's like a dream. Is it real? We did actually happen.
Poor has had a great saying in every human, there is a sense that something infinite has been lost. Wow,
has marriage brought further understanding when it comes to life,
the secret to a happy relationship is too happy. People.
You know what I've learned about marriage. One's wife is always right? And that's the rule one should
put. Yes, I reject that completely. Yeah, people say like, happy wife, happy life, that's all propaganda this. All family propaganda, being
brainwashed. Know, both people have to be equally happy.
You know, from the outside looking in, I personally have this impression of Navarra become the brand and the human, and I feel like nothing hurts that guy. I'm very paranoid person.
So my rule is I don't fight with people. If somebody wants to fight with me, we get one fight and then it's over. There's a lot of people out there and life is long
Dupree. If you are older
than life and you don't have the Next Generation to look forward to, then you better find God fast because I don't think like your own mind and your
your own life will be kind to you as you get
older.
If you know, novel ravikant is please head straight into the conversation. This intro is primarily crafted for those of you who are being introduced to Naval ravikant for the first time surprisingly, there's a lot of people in India who are yet to be introduced to who I consider to be the greatest philosopher of our times. I genuinely believe that history will remember him as one of the greatest Minds that lived in the 21st century. He's an extremely humble, extremely
Relaxed individual. So I know that this intro is going to bother him on some level. That's the side of Novel that I got to know through this conversation. This is the most casual conversation that the internet has ever seen. With this man. It was one of the biggest honors of my own podcasting career to be sharing screen, space and podcasting space, with Naval ravikant. If I had to introduce him professionally, of course, I tell you how he's one of the most iconic Angel Investors in the world. Of course I tell you,
About how he's one of the most important thought leaders for Silicon Valley and the world of Global Twitter or X. Its Naval ravikant on the runway show, this is one of the most memorable episodes for me, on a personal level, but if you're looking for depth in conversation, it doesn't get deeper than ever. We cants mind. It's novel on TRS-80. Huge day for my career. Honestly used a for my own Human Experience. Enjoy the episode.
This is one of the biggest days of my podcasting career but I'm also feeling supremely comfortable as the magic of Naval ravikant. Welcome to the runway show sir. Thank you. Thanks for having me visualize this moment so much over the years. So as I told you in the car ride, on the way, I'm full of gratitude and as we go forward, in this conversation, I'm going to pour more and more gratitude on you when we were on our way here from the network state conference, I saw how much you were hounded. People just want to come up and say that they love you.
This takes me back to that. Joe Rogan episode. You did in 2019. Are you aware of how many young men's lives that episode
affected? I have no idea why, to be honest, I feel like I just said the same thing as I was saying, they're kind of obvious and maybe don't be so easily influenced, really? Yeah. Think for yourself, you know, decide for yourself,
you do, I look at it. So in 2019, I was 26 running for businesses parallelly, getting extremely stressed out, but those two
Of that episode created switches in me. My journey from each 26, 28. 30 one has been much more lubricated, especially from a mental health perspective so you've done a lot for the mental health of many men all over the
world. How much do we really figure out ourselves, right? There's like, there's what are the different kinds of knowledge? It's worth thinking through, right? I'm just thinking it through with you. So there's Knowledge from direct experience, right? You experience, something. And that generates knowledge inside of you, there's knowledge
That you pick up from other sources, you just a vessel is passing through, you picked it up, you synthesize it, you regurgitate it, there's knowledge that you create which is rare. I don't know if I said anything original really? Yeah I don't know, I don't know but I
think you accumulated a lot of data which is backed by years of reading and research. I think
if I were to look back I would say that the only true knowledge I have is the knowledge.
That is directly verified by me and fits in with the other pieces. So I view myself as a very basic thinker. Really? Yeah, I don't view myself as an advanced thinker. I'm not an expert in anything. But what I like to do is everything that comes my way. I like to deeply understand it as simply as possible, I have to be able to put it in simple words and simple Frameworks and simple Concepts and I have to be able to do it all.
Most visually in my mind and exponentially have to map it to some experience that I have. And then I have to go to take that and I have to be able to plug it into something else. I understand it has to fit in a steel frame of understanding at the basics of knowledge. So, for example, mathematics, I was never very good at mathematics. I wanted to be a physicist, but I wasn't going to calculus, but my basic math is really, really good. The same way I don't have the largest vocabulary, but I have a very solid vocabulary and I can be very precise with my words.
Even when I speak, I'm not the fastest speaker and that the slowest speaker. So, I think for me, it's just about, I don't take that. There's a great motto for the Royal Society, which was the Society of scientists in Britain during the Enlightenment era and the motto of the Royal Society is nullius in verba. I'm sorry if I'm angling the Latin, but it means take no one's word for it. And I love that. Take no one's word for it. So I think we are encouraged these days.
To take in knowledge, pour it into our heads like a bucket and we regurgitate it and we use fancy words to cover up. What we don't mean, what we don't know, and I don't accept that unless I understand something at its core fundamental level, I don't understand it and then beyond that level, I get bored. I don't care to understand. So I think just being able to be very particular about what you take in. Make sure you truly understand it and that it is true. Truth is the most
And thing because if you're going ahead with falsehood because they're convenient, you're just going to walk around and bumping your head against reality and wondering why it hurts. So it's important to just always look for the truth. Figure it out for yourself, make sure it fits into your understanding, the open to revising it because you're always wrong. It's just a question of how wrong you are and then using that to find the commonalities of life and navigate it. And I think that's why you're better off asking someone like me.
About very basic things, then about very Advanced things.
Can I ask you a basic question?
Sure. Yeah, please. What's the meaning of
life? We talk about this for hours. Think
about all the time. I still think about it.
I want to kind of reframe it a little bit sure. Yeah. What's new right now, in life for you it's been five years since that Joe Rogan episode and we got to know you so deeply then. Yeah. But what's happened in the last fight? I
don't retrospect in myself. I don't think about myself. That's what's new no.
I just don't, I couldn't tell you because I don't think about myself. I don't think about what's changed in my life and if my life is good or bad or if this happened or that happened, and I don't look at old photos of me and I don't think about old trips. And I think about people that are gone and I don't think about the past, I just don't live in the past at all Dupree,
not in the
traditional sense. No, I think prayer implies some kind of external entity that I'm asking something for, and sure, like, every person I've met have done that here or there, usually, we're fair weather.
Friends with any God that's out there, right? When we need help, we're like all prayer and we don't like everything's good. It's all me, right? So no, I don't, I don't pray in the traditional sense.
But I am very deeply. I hate the word, but a spiritual right, spend and I would Define spiritual and negative way just means not mental, not physical, right? So why do you hit the
world's oil?
Because it's overloaded with a lot of
religiosity, all of a sudden you supposed to be a spiritual being, you're supposed to do yoga, and supposed to meditate, and you supposed to sit cross-legged, you're supposed to, you know, then you argue about is that the bhagavad-gita or the ashtavakra Gita or the, you know, it's all of these roads lead to the same place. The best way I would summarize my thinking on this is that I think existence itself is a miracle, the oldest questions are, why is there something instead of nothing? Why are we here? What's the meaning of life? These are all just
Variants of the same question and there is no answer to that. Does that mean there can never be an answer to that? No, not necessarily but if you start going down that road you'll find all kinds of contradictions, for example with just the meaning of life, right? If there was a single meaning of life, then we would all be slaves to it suppose. The meaning of life is to help others and we'll all be running around trying to help others. And, you know, there'd be no room for the individual. If the meaning of life was to, you know, be strong and fit and healthy than we'd all be working out. We'd all be, I don't know how beer and biceps go to
Together. But, you know, we'd all be building our biceps. So it's better. That there is no overarching singular, meaning of life. It's better that there are personal interpretations, not however, within those personal interpretations, you know, we all have, even though we have complete freedom to choose any meaning that we want and we can create our own, meaning, in any moment.
There are certain common things in what we all want as well. And so that's kind of the Paradox of being a human individual where you're completely an individual, but you're also completely Interlink to everything and anything that exists, you couldn't change. You couldn't change a particle in the universe without changing this moment, right? Not in any meaningful way, although that's not entirely true. There are correcting mechanisms built into it into the structure of the universe. So, but a lot of things had to conspire in a very
Particular way to bring us here together today, right? So, in that sense, everything is very interconnected. On the other hand, my life is in your lives are single player games inside our heads. You know, we interpret everything from birth to death, your experience of your experiences are singular to you. No one will truly ever understand you or get you, and you're always searching for that Unity that connection that going back to, you know, Oneness source.
Togetherness, whatever you want to call it Community. There's many words for it.
In terms of, you know, back to meeting a life the way I think of it is that existence itself is a miracle and everything else is science and I think that's the best of all possible worlds. So spirituality is the side that lies on what who am I why am I here? How long have I got? What am I here for? And these are questions that are really only answerable at a personal level. This miraculous little world that we're in is beautifully put together. I couldn't, I couldn't do a better job for sure, for sure. I couldn't even
In to
do the job and just to give you some ideas as to, you know, just some observations how well it's put together. The fact that science works. That's magic technology. Works that is Magic. You go back and you read books on magic or magicians or fantasy books. They don't have 100 of the power that we have. They don't have self-driving cars, they don't have smart phones. They do have antibiotics, they don't have Rockets. They don't even fantasy novels, they don't even clean running water, you know, they're not reliable food, they don't have food delivery services, right?
So we are all
Already
living in age of Miracles that the best part is we can control and the magic spells that we cast our under the auspices of science. The Wizardry that we create is through technology and that's all manipulable through laws and rules and systems that we discover and we discover and we create and that is incredible we're all magicians I wouldn't I couldn't ask for a better system if an actual Miracle showed up afterwards. Suppose somebody showed up in turn Loaves and two fish or water into wine.
That would destroy our world because all of a sudden you be like, oh my God, there's all these rules for this new thing that we don't understand how it works. And now science is junk, and you wouldn't know how to navigate the world. And now you beat the mercy of demons and angels, and spirits, and you'd be running around worshipping and praying, then you would pray because even like how do I make sense of this world? So I think we live in the best of all possible worlds. Okay.
I think the geography that one grows up in definitely determines their mindset in life to a large degree. And personally, my take on spirituality is
Affected by growing up in India, you read books like the autobiography of your Yogi, you read the life of the Buddha. I definitely feel that there's a higher stage of Consciousness and I don't feel like we've reached the final state of evolution. There is definitely an endpoint which is also beyond the next stage of evolution. Hmm. And I do believe that, you know, you say that cow a calm mind is earned. Hmm. I think that's one of the steps on the ladder and then there's like higher stages. Hmm. I don't know
how useful it is to prognosticate.
About where humanity is headed unless you get there yourself first and you don't have the ability to do anything for anyone, less you embody it yourself. So to the extent that you think humanity is headed there, I say get there first and then the show them the way. I
definitely think that now will ravikant is already on that ladder as compared to other human being. I
have no idea where I'm on that letter.
You don't think you're slightly more evolved.
No, I
don't.
It's a loaded question. First of all, I don't think of myself. I just want to be clear on that and that's not a rule. It's just a habit. I've kind of developed because I found that thinking about yourself as a source of all and happiness. In this really, yes, self-obsession is root of all and happiness. What a Buddha do conquer the self. What does that mean? Means that he saw through the illusion of the separate self? What does that did Buddha think about himself, not for an instant, you know anyone that you think of as an enlightened being does not think about themselves.
For an instant, the happiest people in life when people are their best as because they love something more than they love themselves. They love their children. They love God. They love their mission. What have you?
And all misery comes from rumination from sitting around being depressed. Going in circles in your own head about me, me, me me is a disease and you need the concept of a me to be effective and to keep track of things. You have a memory of certain predilections, your personality patterns, but the more you self-obsessed, the less happy you're going to be again.
Aren T you that and I'm not doing, I'm not saying I don't think about myself to be happy. I can't even tell you why. I don't think about myself. I think it just comes from having thought through a lot of things and then just I get interested in topics and Concepts and ideas and understandings. And the more that I sort of focus that way, the less I just end up thinking about myself. So even like, you know, people ask me like, oh, how's your day going? I'm like, I have no idea. I don't think about it, really? Yeah, okay, maybe if I'm really tired, I'll say. Okay. I'm tired, you know, something really bad happened.
I wasn't a great day, but most of the time, I couldn't even tell you my own State of Mind, okay? Because I'm not interested in it. I don't think it's interesting.
It's interesting for us and I'll give you some perspective. Yeah, we were one of the first podcasts in India, but currently the biggest and I feel that's an outcome of constantly tearing apart people's chests, getting into the hearts and getting to know them. Because in India, we emotional people, and we want to know the emotions of others. We want to know what's in other people's mouths
words, dumb luck because you start early,
Getting all that. Of course not. I'm just joking with you
luck is definitely a
part of that. I mean, luck favors the prepared. Joe Rogan is incredibly successful because he was doing podcasting before as podcasting, he was the top guy on Ustream, which was just like a streaming thing on the internet before podcasting came along. So, there's a certain kind of person that it takes to be early. Hmm, you make your own luck in that sense. I actually luck is luck. Is one of those things that you shouldn't believe in even if
It's true because believing it will hurt your agency. Just like victim mentality, right? Thinking you're a victim, even if it's true. Don't believe it. Because it'll just hurt your agency because you have no power as a victim. You have no power of things are up to luck the whatever power you have. In life comes from believing that you can change things and do things and even if you can't change the outside, you can at least change the inside. No One controls your mind. But you so yeah, it's not like I was joking.
The question I have for you is while all of us sit in India and view novel ravikant ruling the internet in so many ways, a lot of Indians feel very proud. Okay. To see someone from India. Yeah. You know who shares? Genetics with us? Yeah, kind of kill it on a world stage. Yeah, so I've had this thought experiment lately. As I've been researching for this episode, I thought to myself that what if novels parents didn't leave India and what if he was in Delhi, I'm pretty sure you
I'd still take up some form of Entrepreneurship, knowing your personality because I think the some traits that don't change. But then there's a lot that changes because of geography. I wonder if you've ever thought of that reality of your parents didn't leave India and go to the US. How would your life be different according to you?
I don't want to downplay geography at all. I actually think where you live is the single most important decision you make, but the first part of that is making a decision. I like to think that even if my parents had not
But it's the US, I would have probably done. So at a later age because I was ambitious and I wanted to be around smart people and I wanted to build things when I immigrated to the US. I was not in any position to go to Silicon Valley and build things. I had to kind of, you know, claw my way there and I got there a little later than I should have frankly but at any given time in the world's history there's usually only one or two places that really matter in terms of moving the world forward. So there was a time when it was Athens in ancient Greece is a time when it was Florence in Italy the time when it
It was London in the United Kingdom. And then the time, when I was kind of coming into my formative years, it was Silicon Valley. And I knew that I the first time I use an Apple computer, it was an old Macintosh in the computer room, in my high school, I just fell in love with it and I just knew that I had to get closer to Apple that. That was the thing that pulled me in when I got to Silicon Valley, the first thing they did was with my bags, I went in a taxi straight from the airport to Apples headquarters and I wandered around
And I'd read this book by Guy Kawasaki called a McIntosh way, that was very inspirational to me. So, at some point, if you are, if you have high agency, if you're a person that self-motivated, which I think almost everybody watching, this is, you will end up where you're meant to go. It's just going to take some effort, the universe drops. Plenty of opportunity around you, but it's not necessarily on your head. It you have to walk over there and pick it up. Your podcast didn't build itself for example. Counterfactual zahramay.
Possible to do like yes, if you had gone, if you had immigrated to the u.s. early, you'd probably doing a podcast in the US or, you know, if you weren't born a podcast or you found your way to being a podcaster. So even though yes there's luck involved. There's counterfactual is involved, is immigration involved. Don't believe that stuff, you know, it's better to just kind of take responsibility both externally and internally externally for what you managed to do and internally for how you
About it. Like what am I little tweets to myself and all the good ones are to myself? Was I and I alone am responsible for everything I think in feel. So, for example, if I get mad at somebody about something, it's my fault, why am I mad? Why am I making myself angry? Why can't I just deal with the same situation of cool, calm and collected way, why do I have to show two or not? Even show. Why do I have to lose control? Because anger is a loss of self-control? Why? Why am I still so broken? Inside that?
Happens. So I kind of reject this line of questioning to be honest. You know what, if what, if what if who cares, what if we're here,
giving you constantly, talk with that steel framework thing. You say that, learn the first principles. Yes, while we were at the event, a lot of the people backstage. Why like, ask novel about how he achieved this level of clarity? And I understand that you focus on first principles, think, yeah. But what's underneath that thought, like, did you read a book at some point in life that point? Did you know
that?
No, I think when I was young, my dad wasn't around much and he was gone. He had to he immigrated to the US before the rest of us did and took 4 years we could pull us there, and then my parents went through a divorce and so on. So one, good thing was I never had anybody telling me what to do ever, and I had to figure everything out for myself, and I think that helps a lot. It makes you very high agency. I also nobody in my, like, my aunts and my mom, they love this to death, but
There was nobody saying this is right? That's wrong, do it this way. Don't do it that way. So you figure it out for yourself and it started with reading, but eventually just goes to thinking, but I don't think there's anything special, I think, I think deep down everybody wants to understand things, right? Everybody wants to learn. Everyone's curious all children are curious any young child. They'll be asking questions all day long, and I think the trick is just don't stop asking questions and keep asking questions until you can answer something to your own satisfaction.
Um, maybe I had the luxury of the time to read, you know, that's helpful because it helps answer questions when you're younger, at least some reading a lot of too much reading, a reading the wrong things to be bad to like you can stuff your head with the wrong things. I guess for decades. I did not feel like I was that smart, because what would happen is, I would talk to somebody and they'd say, well, there's this and that, and there's this, and they would just served using big terms and big words, and defining huge things, and, and it took me a long time.
I'm to figure out they didn't know what they were talking if someone's using a lot of big words you know. It's the mark of a charlatan to explain simple things in a complex way and it's a mark of a Genius. Like Richard Fineman to do to explain complicated things in simple ways. The smartest people actually understand what they're talking about so they can explain it in plain English. They don't need to resort to abstractions, they don't need to impress and a lot of times with them abstractions of leaky you poke at them and it doesn't quite map or it doesn't mean what they think it means.
I'd rather like stick and I'm a failed physicist. I wanted to be a physicist so and my math wasn't good enough. Plus I want to make money so it didn't work out but I was surrounded by a lot of physicists and I read a lot of physics and so I felt dumb compared to the other physicists. And so I you're not going to trick a physicist. You're not going to walk in and start talking physics and something like you say something that's wrong, they're gonna call you on it. Physics is very rigorous. And same thing with computer science, which I did end up studying is
The code has to compile, the code has to run the code has to work. You can't, you can't trick the machine using words. And so I think having a grounding in scientific disciplines around scientific people forces you to be rigorous and humble about your actual sphere of knowledge. You can't Bluff people systems in which you get feedback, like, real feedback, free markets and nature, right? You can't trick nature. I can't lie the nature, and I can't trick free markets. All end up broke so these systems give
Very good feedback and the force you into being rigorous, but it's very easy to trick people. So if you're in politics, if you're involved in journalism, if you're in media, if you're just, you know, BS thing with your friends, it's very easy to trick people and then you get social rewards, you don't get the negative feedback and that gets baked into your personality, your identity, your way of thinking. So I think I was fortunate enough to be scientifically to get scientific feedback and to be pushed back upon through science and scientific.
Like people also grew up in a tough environment so it was a no BS environment you had to be correct. So you know when you're trying to survive, you have to be correct. When you have an abundance of resources and things are easy. You don't have to be right because you just cushions everywhere in the environment for you, so maybe I was forced that way but like I said, I don't respect much, I don't know, it doesn't really matter to me. It's ancient history, all that matters is here because this is all there is
So let's talk about the here and now, yeah, you're 15. Now yeah, as your definition of Love changed at all
love is just it's one of these overloaded words, like Freedom, you know, it means anything you want. But what does love mean? Okay, I think. So, what is love? Okay.
It is romantic love which we're all familiar with Bollywood thrives on that, right? That's that's an attachment things. Like I love you. You love me. Let's go have kids together. Yes, this is a biological programming. It's there, it's important. It's good to have. That's not the real love
or you love like a fanboy, like how all of us love you. Yeah, love
love is a feeling of unity. It's the attraction to yourself. Actually, it is seeing yourself in something else and then kind of wanting to complete with it. So you can have a spiritual love which is a love for Oneness or God.
You can have a love for your children because they're just part of you. You can have a love for your community because it's like you can have love for your ideas. So love is attraction. In that sense. It's like a, it's a positive attraction. Where are you? You see the unity in the thing with you and you don't necessarily want anything out of it. I mean, that's a that's a genuine love. The nice thing about love is if you think back in your life to when you were loved a lot, right? Like you're loved by your parents, great.
Wonderful to be loved by your parents. Some point you took it for granted. Let's be honest, we all take our parents for granted. That's one of things you learn as a parent yourself you're like oh my God, my parents put up with all of them they were Saints right? You really only start valuing your parents when you have your own children and then you realize what a one-way relationship that love relationship and it's fine. That's the way it's meant to be even your parents, they want. What's best for you? They want you to love your kids. Not to love them back at the same level. So one of the things you learn about love is okay, when you're receiving,
Of you take it for granted and it can even be a little too much. Like, for example, someone is attracted to you and you're not attracted to them. Like, right. The overzealous fan, you know, the girl, the guy who's like chasing you around you like I don't really know. I don't, I'm not really into this. So that
kind of love is the love that we
think we want but we don't really I mean yes, we want a little bit of it, so we don't feel completely alone and it makes us feel safe. But it's not really the love that you want. Now,
think back to when you were in love
when you're in love.
With an idea. How you just work on it passionately. When you're in love with that, say, God or spirituality, how you're just taken and your swept away. Or when you're even in love with the person, you're in love with a woman or your love with a man. And all of a sudden everything is brighter and everyone's happier. And you're just like walking on cloud
nine. The feeling of being in
love is greater than the feeling of being loved is my point, okay?
And you can be in love anytime you want, and how
do you be in love? Well, it can't be for
Straight you can't buy love. You can't force love but I will say a commonality is generally. The less you are thinking about yourself, going back to what I was saying earlier, the more you're going to be able to love other people and other things. So for example, the Buddha's, you know, you know, people will sometimes say, well that's not a Buddha because that person is not loving enough, but that's not necessary. True love is not a requirement for being a Buddha, but it is an output of being a Buddha because a Buddha is a person who is seen through the illusion of the separate self and once
I've seen through the illusion of the separate self. They're no longer self-obsessed and therefore their love, that was earlier turned inwards and became ego. Love for the self when outwards and it still flows as a very simple example. You know, here's something I was little embarrassing, but I'll be vulnerable. You like vulnerable vulnerability, right? So, I kind of sometimes have these near-death exercises right, where it's just like, I imagined myself dying and it's not
Something that I do deliberately just kind of happens the moment when you go into bed. But before you fall asleep, or really interesting because your mind goes into a really hazy almost psychedelic State and and I used to meditate a lot and somewhere along the way. I just found that state between sleeping and waking to be really entertaining and entertaining entertaining. Yes, it's entertaining. So, next time you're falling asleep, just met casts, the smallest effort because you making a real effort, you'll follow. You won't be able to sleep, but make the smallest effort.
Just to be aware of your thoughts as you're falling asleep, as you're going to sleep and your thoughts start going whackier and whackier and whackier. They will just get wild. Like I'll have cats talking to me and, you know, just like weird stuff going in and out just like dreams. You're basically lucid dreaming as you're falling asleep and there's a craziest dream, they don't make any sense, it's all
nonsense, You observe your own thoughts as your
about to fall asleep as about Frosty. That's when you're asking your thoughts, start going off, the rails. You stop thinking about like, what am I doing tomorrow? And how to work go today and you just start having these
Wacky random Connections in your head and it can be really fun to watch those doing it. Just as an entertainment thing, the exploratory thing, what have you found out? I'm not looking to find anything, so I think that's part of curiosity. It to be a little careful because if you go looking for something in particular, then you're only open to seeing that thing. And that's not how you find anything. That's true. But it is just pure mere curiosity. It's an entertaining State. That's, that's a fine reason to do it, right? We do everything because we enjoy it at the end of the day. If you didn't, you wouldn't do it right? Or you.
You want to not as they enjoy it, but you do it because you want to. So, I did it just because I wanted to and once in a while once in a while, and I'm not trying to suggest anything. Because again, if I suggest something, then it's not going to happen for you. But, you know, I'll basically feel like I'm dying. So, I'm falling asleep, but I feel like I'm dying. It's like, you can see things fading out, right? And, as you fall asleep, the the French? No, that's not it. They call orgasm the petite more, The Little Death, right? But, but it's also cool.
Mine shuts down, right? So what's happening is your mind shutting down from waking, the sleeping State and that's kind of a death transition. You can kind of feel like you're dying and you can literally see thoughts going offline. Your mind goes offline and as your mind goes offline, pay attention to what remains pay attention to what actually remains, and don't be afraid of it. Don't be if you're just falling asleep, but like I said, sometimes it feels like you're dying and don't be afraid of death.
All right, you just kind of go with it, just what's? This is just what's happening. And then, as your mind disappears, as things disappear as things Fade Out of existence. See what remains. Okay,
there's a version of something like this that I do for me, the last two thoughts are always the girl I'm seeing and or The God, I know mmm, which is just Universal
energy. Yeah, these are all manifestations of what you would call love, right? This is, this is your stop thinking about yourself because thoughts,
Are what Drive the self-obsession? The self is ultimately, just a thought. It's a the self is a thought that I am a separate creature. I'm a body and my mind if you truly were not thinking like you're in deep meditation, or you're on a psychedelic or your Buddha, you wouldn't have a thought of the self and you would just be you just be aware. That's all that's all there is.
I think the difference in your state of consciousness and mine is one you're much older and you've seen live and by older, I mean, brain older, not physical body order your a wiser you
When being and I think over the years, you've just learned to observe and pick up data from everywhere, my early life experiences kind of catered me, towards a deep sense of what we call bhakti in India, which is Miss, what frame or unselfish love towards the Divine. It's just an outcome of living in India and my eyes. Yeah, though, I
what matters is truth. Not who says what or where you lived or what book you read, which is matters is what's true and that you can figure out for yourself and you can figure it out just as well.
Me and you probably have your core experience of your awareness, same as mine. Every emotion. You felt, I felt every emotion. I felt. You felt, we're human. No. Human Experience is alien to us, so we can have all the same feelings and thoughts, just a different levels and different bases. I saw, I saw as far as reject this idea that I'm Wiser, more advanced. I don't think that's true. No, if I was wise I'd be a Buddha, I'm not. So it's like you know, to ants debating like you know who's smarter and know there's like a there's a
And walking around over there. What's the matter?
Not analyze because what a lot of you dudes in their 20s and 30s. You are what we want to become especially from a piece perspective.
I'm the same guy. I've always been and I wouldn't even say on that peaceful. My mind is a wreck really? Yeah, I'm always like, my wife is always running all over the place. It's always active.
You know, you said that happiness is peace and motion. Mmm. That's something that stayed with me over the years and it's something I practice the person who's going to know the
most about weight loss.
This is the person who was fat as a kid, the person who's going to know the most about peace and happiness, is the one who was the most miserable inside. So don't take from anything. I write to say that I'm some peaceful Zen Buddha inside. I'm not my mind. Still runs out of control. It's a, I'm a crazy person. I'm a crazy person is trying to be a little less crazy and observing my own craziness. That's how we can come back to you and say, like, you know, when I started tweeting a lot about anything other than technology. So I, you know, I was an investor in Twitter early on small, investor in 2000.
S7 and Twitter really launched and started getting big round 2010. Not even big. It was still small, but I was active on Twitter from the start but around 2012, 2013. I was going through a tough period and that's when I started tweeting the stuff that I wasn't supposed to tweet. And I, you know, I started getting feedback from people in the environment who were like, hey, that's weird. You know, you're like a VC, you like an entrepreneur people not going to trust you. They think you're strange. Are you high? You know. It was like a cut.
I
wasn't thinking I was just like, I don't care. I'm just writing to myself, right? And I was writing down my crazier and crazier thoughts. And for a long time, I got no positive feedback on it, which is fine. It's actually fine because if you if you're doing it for positive feedback, you're eventually gonna end up doing the right the wrong thing, right? I like burning my audience. I like occasionally, I'll tweet things that I don't completely believe that a little incendiary because I want to find all the people who get easily triggered second block them. I just want to blow them out, okay?
Are about followers followers, are worthless,
right? It's easy mechanism to adjust your friend list. Yeah. If you're if you're
if you're doing anything for followers, your followers are worthless. You know. Who would you have rather follow you 10 people that you respect that are intelligent and interesting and wise or like a million monkeys? So the the follower count thing is utterly worthless and only one want followers. I only want peer relationships because follower is kind of a weird thing. Now this, this person's not thinking for themselves and now whatever.
Intelligent person. Craves is other intelligent people right to help thinks things through and to kind of bond with but I don't know where I was going with this. But yeah, screw follows. Yeah, I was, I was tweeting and I was tweeting like the craziness in my mind, right. I was a crazy person and so it's just going through my own head and trying to sort out my own thoughts and it's a complete mess and it turns out that we all have the same internal thoughts and we all have the same internal experiences we all do, we have them in different
Order, maybe we interpret different things from them, but we all have the same feelings. So, every time I put out some late-night tweet with some crazy thought, you know, people around the world would just be like, yeah, I'm thinking that too. I forget who said this, those are great lines that are, at a long time ago, but it's something like, oh, I think it was Emerson. And he said,
you know, in every genius we
see our own ordinary thoughts but they come back to us with a certain alienated Majesty. All right, so it's just the willingness to say it.
Combined, with saying it, in an interesting way. So what I realized was that what I liked about Twitter, it was like an open Journal, which forced me to craft my thoughts. It would give me feedback, obviously, because people will come out and correct. You even if you're correct. And what I enjoyed writing was, I would like to saying things that I thought were true, that were novel to me in that moment. Obviously, anything I can think of somebody else's probably thought of
Very few exceptions. So
it was something novel
to me. Something that was true. And I would say it in an interesting way, so that I would remember it. And because I read a lot, as a kid, I tried writing. It wasn't I didn't have the patience to be a long form writer. I wrote a few blog posts and everyone wrote a book and I tried poetry because I like reading poetry but I didn't care to learn M and Rhythm and rhyme. I just cared about the words and the and how evocative they were. And so Twitter was a perfect medium for me. It allowed me to be
Use word, selection and simple Framing and explanation to really hone down things that I thought to be true. And what interesting to me and write them as notes to myself. And to this day like every day, I go on Twitter and someone's quote tweeted me on something or there's like something of all bought. That's like throwing up on the wall quote and I look at them like oh I should follow that advice. Damn that was good. Like that was written to me. Listen note to self or me from five years ago, I should take my own advice.
It's kind of like you're growing up in front of the world.
Yeah, it's and we're
always growing up, right? We're all, we're always on this journey of self-discovery, the single player game, or alone inside, but yet we're deeply interconnected because we're all having the same thoughts. The same emotions, the same experiences with maybe different interpretations, often the same interpretations the great questions in life, the meaning of life or you know, what am I doing here, or what should I do? They all have paradoxical answers. So for example, you know, does life have
Any meaning I could say no, life is meaningless. You arrive with nothing, you die. Nothing survives. You. You don't remember anything as far as you're concerned. The moment, you close your eyes at last time, the entire universe disappears, like a dream that never happened. Poof, no meaning. Okay. On the other hand, I could say actually life has infinite. Meaning, every moment is connected to every other moment, you can see. It's actually the only thing that actually exists. You can describe complete and utter meaning to it, right? Another question you ask is, am I alone?
Yeah, of course, you're completely low, no one else knows, your thoughts, your single point of awareness, and nobody else. Can you have that? Same point of awareness in any two points are infinitely different in space. On the other hand it could say no of course you're not alone. The entire universe at the conspire to bring you here at this moment. It's all part of collisions from The Big Bang till now and then poof, here you are. And how can you and everything that you do is a function of your environment and your jeans, neither which you selected, so you're not alone. You're just, you're, you're part of everything you're indispensable.
Sensible part of everything. So, all of these great questions are paradoxical answers and that's one of the ways that, you know, you're dealing with one of the great questions. And it turns out, you know, if you think it through the reason, when you see these paradoxes often, what you'll find is that the question is being asked, you know, what is the meaning of life? But then it's being answered at two different levels and one level is a level of the individual separate self, which says, oh, the meaning is just what I ascribe to it. And then,
Times. It's you answer it. There's a slight of hand and you answer it, the level of the universal self where you say, well, of course, you know, the meaning is the universe or the meaning is life itself or like, am I alone if you answer that at the individual level, then the answer is yes. If you answered the universal level, the answer is no. So the paradoxical answers come from the you choose to take you choose to adopt the Viewpoint of yourself as a separate person or do you take the view point of your spiritual self and
We jump between those
that's contradictions very Loosely without paying attention, and we end up with these paradoxical answers. And we think that the question is not solvable, but that's not entirely true. It is solvable, it's just which level are you speaking from? So, for example, going back to the Buddha. Oh, Buddha, not the Buddha, but a Buddha, anybody, any enlightened person, they don't have any sense of persistent separate self. And so, they're always answering at the universal level. And that sense, they're freed of contradictions and I think
Reason we admire those people is because we ourselves want to be freed of this internal contradiction board. Has had a great saying that in every human. There is a sense that something infinite has been lost. Wow. And I love that phrase because to me, that's kind of if if I think about kind of what's going on here, right? I can't prove it. So you're the end of the day you should figure it out for yourself. But I think what's going on here is that there is a universal self which is just raw awareness and
That's all. There is everything in your experience is
awareness in my eyes based on what I've read and learned through the show. I feel like Hinduism explodes. Exactly this question, what is the
infinites? Yeah, I Hinduism gets closer than anybody else, but any ISM isn't going to quite get you there because an individual thing.
You know, the word Hinduism is not like by modern-day Hindus, we refer to it as Sonata, and then it's just like the Eternal.
Yeah. What I like about Hinduism is that it lets kind of everybody find their own way and you
Pick your God. You can pick your path. Yeah. It's a buffet and but because it has to be, because they're as many pads as there are people and because you created an individual story, right? There's kind of an awareness, or Consciousness, everything that you experience is in this awareness, it arises in the awareness is probably made of awareness, it's known by awareness. So what else is there? Everything is intermediate in through your awareness and then on top of that, you layer, your identity and your body, and your problems and your issues, and your achievements, and your desires. And then eventually you I'm layer
Love that, you lose that. And you go back to this undifferentiated, awareness, which is kind of always been around. It's hypothesis. I don't know if it's true. A lot of people say it, you know, and I do read a lot of old Indian texts, really? Yeah. Well, I like I'm a fan of obviously everyone says bhagavad-gita, but I like the ashtavakra Gita. If you've read that one, that's it.
Yeah, they'll expect you to say
that. No, I just about to eat is amazing. Verse is Yoga, which has a lot of the Enlightenment stories. Herman hash wrote that book Siddhartha, which is
Fictionalized Buddha story. But, you know, then I've read, you know, Raja yoga and autobiography of a yogi and all that stuff. Osho, krishnamurti, habla de Mello, Michaels. Okay, if it's, I got into what I would call it Enlightenment porn. They tracked down about a dozen of these people in real life and I interviewed them. And I met them and spend time with them. And I meditated, and I did it all that stuff, but the conclusion that kind of came to is that you got to figure it out yourself, all that stuff is inspirational, but and you can only kind of do it if you want. Like, right now,
I'm on YouTube and I'm watching all krishnamurti talk so much, watching papaji mooji Rupert Spira Ascend or random Youtube videos with guy has like ten followers, but his enlightened, the YouTube algorithm is really good. It finds a lightning good people. If users click around far enough but obviously at some level of not fully serious about it because if I was serious about it, I would be there. But there is a greater truth out there.
Again, this is a bit of a compliment to you. In my eyes, you're the definition.
A Watterson Anthony is in terms of exploration and collecting knowledge and then coming to a conclusion about life and the Divine yourself based on your own experiences and knowledge, then using the shastras, the ancient books as reference points. So that's just how I I think
we all want to know the truth. And there's a little truth and there's a big truth and there's a bigger truths and this is probably the biggest truth, right? And I did cheat a skip to the end, I looked at the answer, might have been a mistake to be honest because the point is not to earn a PhD in
Enlightenment's actually be enlightened right and so I don't know exactly how you get there. There doesn't seem to be a copyable path but I'm still fascinated with it. My mind is still circling the drain on. It does the
Mahabharat have any influence on your
mind? I don't remember it too. Well, I think now this is where I'm going to just offend a lot of people but I think that's mostly historical thing and obviously everything, you know, old Indian mythology has a lot of spirituality weaved into it, but no, it's not one that I've spent much time on, okay,
it's more of the philosophy.
If he's like the ashtavakra
Gita and yeah I love the ashtavakra Gita. It's incredible. The song of self-realization.
Yeah. When you're reading that stuff. Yeah. Is there a part of your DNA that feel stimulated being Indian?
You know what keeps trying to nail me on this as on being Indian it's
it's a very brown person thing to do. Well, I think I think we want a certain
pride in being India, right? Because it was stripped off because it was stripped up. I think. That's exactly right. And I sort of
Reject, that it was stripped off. Really in the sense that it was just like, hey, I'm equally valid, right? I don't consider myself inferior to anyone or customers are superior to anyone. So, in that sense, like don't let him strip you in the first place that you didn't have to, then go needing it, fulfill it and, and really only the individual can can truly transcend only, the individual can rise above whatever is facing them. So putting your faith in a group identity, your sort of Bound for disappointment. I mean how many Indians are there. It's over a billion, right?
So there's going to be as many points of differentiation as their commonality. It's not like all billion, Indians link arm and Marshall. Same thing. We're not, we're not ants so at least I approach it more from Individual level, I'm happy to be Indian, I have no objections with it. I think it's a rich culture and I think it's, you know, helped me a lot and half the books. I read these days were written by Indians. You know, back in the day, almost all the philosophy. I read is Eastern philosophy and the little bit of Western philosophy that I like schopenhauer and Amber.
Listen, we're incredibly and d'mello. They were incredibly influenced by Eastern philosophy. They basically just cribbed Eastern philosophy and they put it in western words, right? Because Eastern philosophy has the virtue of being correct. It's true, right? One side says, you know, God has this shape this skin color. This size lived at. Exactly this time. It has exactly these rules like skeptical, you know, the other side says, well, you are the self that you're looking for, it's all inside of you to figure it out for yourself and you know, here some
Equal steps that you can take towards self realization. Now that seems more it, you know, it seems more correct.
It's an example of just kind of being older like,
yeah, I'm more time to
contemplate. I think anyone, who
is highly truth-seeking will eventually find their way to Eastern philosophy because it has the virtue of being true. Just like Western science, has the advantage of being true. Okay, so Western physics. So when people talk about like oh we're going to have indigenous math, no 2 plus 2 has to equal 4, right? Okay. We could be wrong but I doubt it that's our best theory right now that too.
Two plus two equals four. So I Look to Western for science technology advancement by the East is not starting to make strides there as well but when it comes to the oldest questions, the best answers are the oldest ones. Like these someone a lot of what we'll be discussing has been around us questions since the dawn of mankind. So an Indian civilization is one of the oldest civilizations is probably the oldest large civilization that explored these topics where we have written materials and records and
Missionaries and so on. And there's probably more Buddhas and alive on the Indian subcontinent than there are anywhere else in the world. So if you're attracted to the truth of the old questions and you want to find the old answers, you're going to head there. This is natural. I
think there are some problems with traveling in India, namely hygiene and it's a little chaotic. But if one is ever seeking for the right answers in life, especially when it comes to these questions, India opens up
Certain portals in your head,
you can be influential. That said if you can't figure something like that out, exactly where you are. Exactly when you are there, then it's not true. The truth is not something that's going to live in a certain region at a certain place at a certain time, has to be told to you by a certain person certain way. That's not a truth. That's just another experience. So anything that because the whole point of spirituality is to be freed of the monkey mind and to be at peace in the moment.
And so it can't be reliant on anything outside. It can't be, it can't be can't be in the future. It can't be in a different place. You know, one of my problems that I have with all religions, is this idea that like, oh, this is the word of God and it was passed down through this book? Well, okay, well, what if I didn't speak that language, but it was born at the wrong time. Know any fundamental truth that spiritual has to be accessible to every human that every time in every place, regardless of language, culture, religion age, you know, gender, whatever.
Even physical being like you could be, you could have mental retardation, you could be crippled, you could be dying. You should still be able to see and find an experience that same truth on your own. Otherwise, if it's, if it's brought to you from the outside, if it's temperature can be taken away from you. And so I think the best path towards truth is understanding because when you deeply understand something, you're not going to understand it. It's the nature of truth that once you see it. Once you learn it, you don't unlearn it because it's true. That's the truth is indestructible. Knowledge in your mind. It can only be replaced by a better.
It can all be replaced by 0. Okay, that was that truth wasn't complete. Here's another piece of the truth that I was missing, but in that sense, truth cannot be destroyed. It can only be overruled by other truth. So if you find some understanding, then that can be with you forever
as marriage. But not for the understanding, when it comes to life, I don't marry
just fine. Household is great. I don't like to discuss personal life, okay? I just don't think it is relevant to other people's lives. I will
I say like, you know, I was talking about this earlier today but my own favorite tweet to myself is the a Fit Body. A calm mind and the house. Full of love. These things cannot be bought, they must be earned and the house full of love is that part and you can create a house full of love, anytime you want by giving love that said, you know, marriage is complicated negotiation between. People have to learn how to live together. You have kids, it's not easy, but I'm not the person to give marital advice.
If only you will do it, it's too personal. And every marriage
is so unique, and even the concept of marriage is sort of going away in a lot of Western societies. I do encourage children. I think children are amazing. Really everyone should have kids. Yeah, absolutely. I don't understand. This anti-natal is thing. We are here, you're here. I'm here, because an unbroken chain of our ancestors. From tadpoles the monkeys to Mao had children, are you going to be the first ones to miss that branch?
You believe in some afterlife, all your ancestors. Looking at you saying, oh my God, I can't
believe it, we you struggle so hard. You know, we fought Tigers, we cross mountains, we froze during the ice ages. And this idiot just decided not to have children because he couldn't be bothered. The bad guy is still a chance, but I will tell you like if if you are older in life and
you don't have the Next Generation to look forward to, then you better find God fast.
Because I don't think like your own mind and your own life will be kind to you as you get
older.
You know what I've learned about marriage from the outside of not married. Yet. This is conjecture. Okay, I think once wife is always right. And that's the rule one should follow.
Yes, I reject that completely. Yeah, people say like, happy wife, happy life. That's all propaganda. The cell, feminine propaganda, like you're being brainwashed,
know, both people have to be equally happy
reading. The secret to a happy relationship is too happy people, and you can't be happier than your spouse. It's not happy wife. Happy life. It's unhappy, wife, unhappy life.
Also, so you both have to be happy. Both of you have to work hard to make each other happy. You have to be a good fit and a good match, but the point of getting married is to have children. So you know have the kids and then you know worst case you have kids which is still an amazing outcome and best case you're happily married. You have kids, but I don't buy that, you know, keep the wife happy propaganda. That's that's that's letting her shirk her
duties as being kind. It's kind of
you now that that approach would work if I ask your fiance or girlfriend and she said,
Oh, My Philosophy is like, you know, keep the husband happy at all costs. If she said that then I would be like, okay, that's a good match. They're both trying to keep each other happy but if it's all one-sided now that doesn't work. I
mean personally I'm very son Anthony. Yeah. And sanatan dharm says the key to a happy relationship is tolerance and selfless service. So those are the two kind of flagpoles. I have got
after finding the right that's good. If everybody follows it you know if both people are selfless and tolerant with each other then we'll work our
Well, but you're not going to be any voluntary relationship, where your selfless intolerant, the other person's intolerant and selfish they won't last so you can only make those kinds of. So those are good guidelines for society. They're not necessarily good guidelines for the individual as an individual mate selection is a real thing. You have to pick a person who you're incredibly compatible with, you know, the traditional model is that the the man earns in creates and the woman kind of takes care of the household. A man takes care of things outside. She takes care.
Of things inside that's a traditional model. I know the West is falling out of favor but it works. And in that model the man has to be capable and do his duty and the woman has to be kind and loving and, you know, take care of the household. And so that is a valid model of how the world works. And you can kind of, I don't see an option or whatever, you can have some prescriptions about how to run that, but the reality is life is very complicated. Every every individual is completely unique, the comet oryx of human DNA are staggering, you'll never meet two people who even vaguely alike if you leave a
And you break up with a girlfriend. You lose a person in your life. A loved one. You're never going to find a substitute. You're never going to find anybody who's like the same or even close. Even close, right? I've never met two human beings or even vaguely similar except perhaps identical twins but that's theoretical. I don't know. Any up close that well. So
if every person is unique just imagine how
unique every relationship is. So having other people navigate your relationship with hard and fast rules, doesn't work? You can look to for inspiration. You can look to for
Suppose, but each relationship has to work on its own merits and I am, I am a lazy person and I hate conflict. So my rule is, if it relationship has conflict, I just leave it. I don't fight with people. If somebody wants to fight with me, we get one fight and then it's over because there's a lot of people out there. There's a lot of people out there and life is long. So you have to navigate your way towards the people who love you for who you are and you love them. The way they are. Nobody needs anybody to change and if
Change is okay because you still kind of value the core and you change together the same way like you find, you have to navigate your way to the career of the job, the profession, the obsession, where you like the thing for what it is. The moment is complete in of itself as you perform that act and if you get some reward out of it that's fantastic. But that's not the core reason you do it. And the same way I think you can apply that to every facet of your life, even if you're eating you want to find the healthy food that you actually enjoy eating, there's many healthy
Foods out there. Just find the one that you enjoy eating and just focus down on those for exercise. Find the sport or the hobby where you, it doesn't feel like work to you like play tennis or you know, if you like running then go run. If you like lifting then go lift if you like playing tennis and go play tennis. So I think the beauty of Modern Life is it gives us so many options and that's not a bad thing. Options are good. It's just you have to navigate your way through the options and find out what works for you and then commit to that. And so on relationships. I don't View.
And I know this is antithetical to the classical Indian way of arranged marriage which had its merits. That was basically saying, hey let's find someone who's culturally similar socioeconomically. Similar you know worthy of you and the purpose of marriage is to build a house hold and have children. So we'll take care of the basics, didn't always work, but you know, pretty good hit rate compared to Modern where. It's just like I'm going to marry my high-school sweetheart or roll the dice or oh I got this girl pregnant accidentally and then off we go. So it can work better than some models. But in a choice based model which is where
we're Western societies and I think increasingly Eastern societies there, you have to be picky. So if you're having to sacrifice for your spouse and they're not sacrificing in return, just go somewhere else. If you're in constant conflict in both of you need to go, find someone who's you're not each of you is not going to be in constant conflict with, and I think that's a much better recipe that, that ability to search. And to look, and to cut your losses quickly because there's High sunk cost in these relationships. The biggest problem in relationships that dishonesty
We're we're trying to make the other person happy, we're trying to appear our best. And so for the first year, the relationship you just fake it. You just you just a different person. And sometimes that's just your emotions are driving you and you're in love, so you're being on your best behavior without even thinking about it and sometimes it's a little more deliberate, but the reality is a longer, you fake it. The worst is going to be because then you get trapped and now sunk cost and you don't want to walk away and breaking. Their relationship is hard and your friends and family expect you together and you can't imagine life separately and now you're stuck. So it's just
Better to be brutally, honest upfront about who you are and your needs, and your worst sides and all of that and don't try to throw off any Impressions because eventually this person will see you at your worst and eventually you will see them at their worst. So you might as well to start
there. You don't from the outside looking in. I personally have this impression of Nevada ramakant the brand and the human and I feel like nothing hurts.
That guy
does anything hurt you at all,
you know,
I'm a very paranoid person so I do stress out about, you know, I grew up with very little. So I'm always stressed is stressing over like politicians and money you know and like the West is now come become very fashionable to hate money to hate wealth to hate entrepreneurs, to try to tear people down. We've turned into the cancel culture, right? So, yeah. So you know, those kinds of things, occasionally stress me out, but I would say that
There's not anything I want
need is the need is the ultimate monkey other than knowledge
rate have not even that like well it was now is going to do for me. I'm gonna die. It's all going to go to 0 anyway, so it's fun. I enjoy learning things. I love the aha moment when it connects something together and I would tweak it a little bit. I would say it's understanding that knowledge, knowledge is because knowledge is complete with memorization and, you know, memorizing facts. And I got cheap ET for that and the internet.
So, I enjoy understanding, I enjoy learning my own tweet to myself on. This was a spend your life in the company of geniuses sages children in books, right? Those are the four things that I enjoy the
most. There's a 15, a great, Indian podcaster. I thought you were gonna say your wife.
She's gonna, she's gonna nail you on this one. I think that it is that there was a, there was an old thing at a story that I was like, about
These where they took him into, they took him into the equivalent of the mall, the market. And there were all these luxuries and fineries and things laid out, and Delicacies to eat. And he said, there are so many things in this world that I do not want. And I was like, oh, that's power. That's, that's it right there. All right, or what Alexander, the Great met diogenes. Who's living in a barrel? You know, Alexander was like, I wish if I came back in their life that I
Could be like, diogenes and diogenes said something along the lines of. Well, if I came back, I wouldn't want to be
Alexander, right? So being freed from
need is the ultimate but I'm not, I'm not a Buddha, I'm not the guy who's going to suddenly renounce everything and not have a need and renunciation doesn't work anyway, but it's more that, you know, I like games. I think we all like games, we all play games, we play the social game, we play the video games, we play the money games, we play the fitness game, we play The Fame game, we played a love game, we play the happiness game, it all play games.
And I've played a lot of games, my whole life of every kind and I won a lot of games and the reason to win the game is so you can be done with it so you can see through it if you just keep playing the same game over and over and over grinding, you know, trying to go higher and higher, maybe that works for somebody doesn't work for me. So I like to either see through games or I like to be done with them. So I used to be an avid video gamer until very recently. Actually, it's a couple of years back me, like five years ago.
Go. I probably spent more time playing video games. I spent working.
Did it do anything for your mind?
It was fun. Yeah, probably. I mean, it was, I was playing harder and harder games and more, and more intellectual games, and strategy games and War games and thinking games, but they're just games are meaningless games, right?
And what was your favorite?
They were so many? I mean, mostly war games. I was it was a deep organ Magic, the Gathering if you remember that game, you know. So anyway this that is it rather this was a game doesn't matter. The point is I would just play lots and lots of
Games and it's some deep deep level. I knew there were worthless because, you know, you're playing this game, then you get some stupid reward at the end and then they change the rules of that game. And then the game changes in, like, your reset or like, you, you forgot your login, or you lost it because you upgraded, your computer, or your whatever, or they say, they rolled out version 5 of the in subversion for you starting all over, right? It's a, you know, it's worthless, you're just running in a circle, right? And all games are worthless because you died in the end, but at least some are longer lived in others, right? There are games that that for
Example, if I'm playing the wealth creation game I can make money, which has an actual effect on my remaining life as opposed to just playing a video game, which has none of that benefit. I'm not taking away from games, games are useful, their training for the intellectual athlete. Just like sports might be training for War for the physical athlete. That said I was still playing a lot of games. I knew they were kind of worthless. I was doing it to blow off steam or just because I don't even need a reason. I was it was entertaining but then one day I read.
Blog post and you know, truth is that when you see it you can't unsee it. And this guy in just the right turn of phrase. He called games a shadow career. He said games are Shadow career and I was like oh that's so good. That is so good. It's like a career building, that's fake. You know it's a shadow it's just going to disappear as like and and since that moment I haven't been able to see games as anything other than a waste of time. So I still do play games occasionally so once in a blue moon will see with my kid out,
Pick up a game. I'll play for a little bit but now I'm thoroughly and completely aware that it is a quote unquote waste of time and if I'm okay wasting the time it's fine. But these days I'm not really okay. Wasting time
you still believe or games with your kid. I'm going to pick one or
two up. Mostly these days though they're on their iPads playing their own games. It's fine.
But what game would you have your kid play? And I ask this from the perspective of I feel when I was growing up as a teenager it's a few games that really affected my mindset in life FIFA like the because it just eats
Something about team play Okay Age of Empires obviously. Yeah, because you learn strategy SimCity because you learn Administration. Yeah, and Sims because you learn about
self-improvement, I mean, look, I can argue for many of them, I can argue for The Sims and the civilization type games I can argue for board games, WarGames strategy games, the reality is even the few games I played these days, they're just like runners or Jumpers or Fighters, you know. They don't have any real meaning to them. It's fine. There's
I think one of the one of my tweets or analogies that went more viral than others was, like I really believe that you should live your life, like an athlete or like a lion, right. Which means that most of your time you're resting, you're just futzing around your lazing around you're just doing whatever you find entertaining. And then once in a while, you get obsessed with something and something is important and you just pour everything into it. So I would rather be recharged and ready for my next intellectual or physical Obsession, then.
Putting myself on the grinder of, I have to wake up at this time, then eat my blueberries and then do my push-ups and then it and just like live, a regimented mechanical life. I want to live a very free life. I don't want to calendar, I don't want to be in a specific place at a specific time. I don't have to answer to people. I just want to be free and I think that's how you do your best work and especially in an age where we have so much leverage in the system either through code or Media, or through other people, or to Capital the quality. We decision-making dominates.
Verything Warren Buffett is one of the richest men in the world just because he makes the right decision once a year. And so having a clear mind is way more important than anything else, which this is all excuse for laziness which is just let me relax and relax and relax until I need to make that decision. But it's like, even if I look at my, you know, having made money in life. It has happened through a bunch of different sources, but the number one was like, way bigger than the number two through and put together. Two number two was bigger than three through when put together,
Bigger than fourth, when put together this kind of how your entire life Works.
What was number one of you don't mind me, I'm
not going to get into it, but it's, but it's the compound interest applies in all intellectual and often even in a relationship domains. So, for example, your number one relationship in your life, eventually your kids, currently your wife, maybe you, or one of your parents is going to be more valuable to you than kind of all the rest put together right there. So maybe not so much in relationships, but definitely in definitely in
Learning, you know, your best ideas going to be worth more than all the rest, my best Tweets, the few best Tweets. You know, you're only judging your best work, not your worst. So in that sense, being high output is really good. Current generation. May judge you on your average but the future, what will happen is, let's say you record and I'm a podcaster recorded 800 800 grade. So you know, by the time you're done, you'll probably have two thousand or something for your final like, okay, I'm bored of this game, right? So let's say you're 2000 podcast in your life. What's going to happen is 20 of them are going to be amazing, okay? And those will stand the test of time and
Slowly trickle down trickle-down trickle down a hundred years from now. People watching 20 of them and then 200 years from now. 300 from now he'll be watching one of them, right? So it's you. So in all of these intellectual domains, you are only judged by your best work in posterity which is not to say you can just shortcut to it. But most effort in life in that sense is wasted, but it's both training wheels for the winning 1. Plus, you just never know when or where the right thing is going to emerge. So you kind of just have to keep moving
But I the thing, I'm not a fan of his wasting time wasting time, you know tedious, meetings are tedious. People, you know, traveling to places for business where there's like you don't actually enjoy it. Anything ceremonial or ritual meetings you know complete waste of time. Most meetings just save your time, save your energy, just be happy. Enjoy yourself and be and be ready for the opportunity because it was the time when opportunity comes. And if
You yourself are rested and ready and you find yourself interested in and then you have the space in your life and in your mind that you can be sucked into it. And again without any desire for a specific outcome because when you desire for a specific outcome, you're moving away from truth-seeking because I you're looking for something and if that thing turned out not to be true, you're going to try and force it
and we can't
help it. We are Desiring creatures. You would even be here on this Earth if you were to design creature, right? You just lie, them don't like worms.
See you. So you are Desiring creature but you just have to be careful with your desires because they will take you away from the truth. Because true, true reasoning is unmotivated it's or it's motivated purely by curiosity. Curiosity just means you want to know the truth. That's all it is. So in that sense curiosity is the pure motivation, every other motivation is motivated, reasoning and leads. You to is more likely to lead you to an incorrect answer and then the worst thing you can do is get through motivated, reasoning, get to the falsehood and then you
Bake that into your identity. You identify it with yourself, you say, well, because I'm a Hindu or a Christian or a believe this? Or because I'm a Republican or Democrat, I believe this. And then you get locked into that. Now, that is a part of your understanding is a shaky Foundation. Then you start attaching other things. That shaky Foundation politics is a good example of this. Well, you know, because I, you know, believe in a woman's right for abortion and I also have to believe that, you know, trans women are men or men or women. And I have to believe that like, you know, there's no hair to be
Be in certain things. But there is another things I have to believe that capitalism is evil Yasser, plugging all these things together. It won't actually belong together. They're voting coalition's, their coalition's of Voters that have been assembled single-issue voters. But now all of a sudden you've to adopt all of these beliefs are in Christian, you know, if I'm Christian and I have to believe this in this in this. Otherwise I'm not a true Christian or if you believe this in this Hindu sect, otherwise not a true, Hindu all that is nonsense. One of the best lines are heard in. This was Buddha wasn't a Buddhist, you know. So all the people that you admire all the people that you look up to, they're not they don't.
Strongly self-identify with any movement. You know Lee Kuan Yew created Singapore, where we're sitting today, he didn't consider himself, Singaporean he created that thing. So I think all of us are meant to
not, okay, not when nobody's meant to do anything, but all of us function
at our best
when we don't identify with anything outside of ourselves.
The one thing that this conversation is teaching me, is that the universe is kind of wired to fuck us up a little bit.
Well, it would have to be to be interesting, right? If you could just print, it was predictable to be boring. The video no point in being here
is this the most unserious
podcast that you've ever done? I don't know.
Probably maybe. I don't know. Are you comfortable being unserious? Sure. Yeah I'm comfortable being me.
I mean I was so intimidated by the thought of speaking to you but once I got talking to you, I've just realized that you're like any of us, you have done the right things consistently and you've done the things that you felt were easy, but made a habit out of a few other difficult
things. I think if there's one thing that my friends would say is,
That, like, I try to figure everything out for myself. I don't listen to anybody else. Not even your wife, nobody
your kid, nobody really?
Yeah, no gurus, no mentors, no teachers, no, holy this or that. I mean, I definitely have learned from people for sure. I'm almost everything I know I've learned from other people, but I verified it for myself. Is your work, your Guru? My work. I don't work.
You know how you have that saying about
You choose something that feels like play to you, but work for others. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think, once you advance in that journey of play turns into art, after Point. Yes. And that's how you look at all the products that you invest in that they art for you. Do they teach you things for
life? Okay, whether it's in politics science, business spiritually, whatever, history, remembers the artists, the artists are the people who are creative and March to their own beat and do their own thing. Great software is Art, great, businesses art, starting a
In like starting a new country. You know some level is Art you're creating ex nihilo you creating something out of nothing and that to me is like the most rewarding thing to be doing at any given time but our can't be forced. It can in a sense art is done for its own sake. It's not done for any external purpose. If you're doing it for money, it's less. You're hurting its its capability to be Arts, not to say can't still be great art. But it, you're just
You're now beholden to other interests. It's like, motivated reasoning, it's like true scientists. Try to figure things out to fulfill their desire to figure things out, right? And the moment they figured out is complete. They don't need a Nobel Prize or a feels metal afterwards and in fact, some of the better ones I've rejected that or like famously, Bob Dylan, I think rejected the pill and surprised or whatever it was like he got some massive prize didn't show up, didn't even bother because he knows his music is good, he created for himself. So I do think that is the highest calling creating
Something for yourself because you want exist now. Nobody's perfect. We're not all going to get there and there's always going to be external motivations but the less the more internally motivated you can be the more the thing itself is the reward, the better the work you will do and the more fulfilling it is. So that's kind of what I aim for but maybe this is my excuse for being useless these
days. Okay. You know again everyone views the world with the lens.
That their own mind has placed due to their own stories. So, the lens I view the world with is honestly pretty spiritual, and I know you don't like the word, but again, it's an outcome of growing up in India and my eyes. There's a concept of the flow state state of flow, where your best work happens. And I've always wondered to myself about your Flow State now has a flow State and for me, at least based on what's visible to the public eye. It happens when you're tweeting when you're on one of your sweet storms, and it happens when someone's asking you the
Right. Questions and unlocking the yeah. Am I right in the mix? Yeah, I mean in a flow
State your mind isn't obsessing with itself. It's you're thinking about yourself, you're focused on the thing, your focus on the activity, it's a meditative State. It's a state where like for example, if you're drawing or painting, then you are the brush, you are the paint. You're only thinking about that. And there is no internal chatter. You're not saying and you know I can't wait for dinner or I can't believe my wife said this to me. Yeah, that's all gone.
And that's and you're also operating at the edge of your capability. So it's interesting enough that you, you were being stressed, you're being strained, you know, you're operating at the edge, but it's not so far forward that you are being confused. Or you're like obviously screwing up, so flow state is a wonderful thing. It's a very meditative state but probably the shortest way to not be in a flow. State is to try to be in a flow stage, right? Because it's again,
it's that effort, right? So it comes much more from you find things that you like to do and then when you and because you like to do something you're interested in it, you're going to get good at it, you're going to be doing it. And as you're doing it, you're climbing that ladder of Mastery. And any you can climb that ladder to literally anything as you get more and more into it. You're going to be more and more inflow. My problem is, I switch around a lot, so I fall in love with something. I obsess over it and learn everything I possibly
Possibly can about it. What? We're a couple of months, kind of period. And then once I figured the basics out 80/20, I start getting bored and then when I start getting bored, I just sort of background it now, becomes a piece of my knowledge and understanding and then I just move on to the next thing or I just spend time being bored until the next thing comes along.
Do you think that the Flow State sometimes allows you to channelize knowledge? That's present. Externally
I don't know
what I'm going to say until I say it. So it's kind of funny that one of the ways that I've learned what I think is by saying it and the same way. One of the ways that I learned, what I know is by tweeting it. So very often, I'll just be talking with a friend, I'll be hanging out, will be having dinner, or I'll be sitting at home by myself late at night, and I'll just have a thought, and I'll come into my mind, almost fully baked. And I'm like, oh, I should tweet that and I'll tweet it. And then sometimes of a second thought I better change this and usually the first version is always the best.
I don't know where it comes from is kind of interesting. It comes from Beyond whatever that means, right? Maybe comes from the depths of my mind. Maybe comes from somewhere else, but they come to me fully formed, which is kind of the entertaining
thing. I mean, I'm of the belief that comes from somewhere else.
Creativity is a mysterious Force, right? Yeah, I don't know.
I mean that's again, I keep bringing this up man. But when I'm talking to you, I feel like I'm talking to a rashik in order to she is. Yeah, so embarrassing. Sorry Barney. But that's, that's what it feels like. So, you know, on a very Primal level. The podcast for me is based on my childhood dream of wanting to explore the Himalayas and have conversations with sages. And I'm just like making money off of it right
now. Spend your life in the company of geniuses sages children in books.
They but again, this is one of those things are figure out through the show, whenever I speak amongst the keep talking about the Flow State, how it is meditative. It is a form of working your mind towards Evolution, but one needs to be humble within the Flow State and understand that it's not their own thoughts and creativity, but it's being placed in the head externally, by, in a real flow. Say, you're not
thinking about yourself, so it's not coming from this. When we self is a very loaded word, it's another one of these self. It's a
I want these words that can mean a lot of different things, but
this kind of a separate self, the identity, the story, The Character, the name, the kind of the, the emotional predilections were doing certain things and not doing others the reactions, the memories, that's the false self. Okay. We know that from Hinduism and Buddhism in Hindu mythology and they've written it down much better than I could ever say that's the false self. But yet that's the self that we function under 95% of the time. And when we go into a flow,
oh state, that self quiets down for a bit and then All That Remains is true self which is just
I don't have a name for it. Maybe you have any friends, it's just the thing that is right? Its existence itself. It's Consciousness awareness, to me. They're identical right? As an aside. One of the I think, I think there's a lot of great questions out there that people just don't ask because it's so cliched. Right. So one of the questions I love is like if a tree falls in the forest and there's no one around to hear it. Does it make a sound so cliche? I think about that one all the time you know? Because it really ask the question like you know is existence and our existence and consciousness.
It's the same thing, like in what sense can something be said to exist, if nothing is ever conscious of it or it's, or its effects. Another one that I like to think about, is the philosophical zombie problem, which is, you know, why do we even need Consciousness? Why couldn't you just be walking around reacting, like, an ultimate on to everything? And I could see the exact same reactions, exact same emotions and whatever, but you just don't need to be conscious. Why why does that? Why aren't we all just fill salt? Why don't we all just some B's and
It's funny because the Buddhist answer to that is. If you think it through is kind of, it's not why Consciousness. The answer is why zombie like, this is zombie actually exist, or is that just a figment of the, you know, awareness is Imagination. Another one that I like is, you know, some of the wisdom. That's really old is so embedded. In culture, we don't think about row row. Row your boat. You know, that one row. Row row, your boat. Gently down the stream. Yeah, it's so smart. Nobody thinks about and we talk about is so smart. That's like one of the greatest works of art ever created.
Row row, row your boat. In other words, do your work, right? The analogy is, you're sitting in a boat, you're kind of by yourself. You have there might be other boats but you're kind of by yourself. You're rowing, you got a row? You got to do some work, gently down the stream, gently? Yeah, I don't struggle too much, you know, you kind of to figure out what you can navigate without getting all stressed out down the stream. It's a good analogy for Life, the river, you know, it's going off. You know, it's got to die at the end merrily merrily merrily merrily. Yeah, that's, that's the right attitude. Life is but a dream. That's
The cold hard truth. Life is but a dream. It appears it disappears. It ends Infinity on both sides. Right? There's so much wisdom in that little poem and it stuck around forever. But instead we have to go looking at complicated books to figure this out
as I've learned through the show, they say that the ghosts of human life is that once you die, you realize that human life was the
dream.
Yeah, I mean nobody knows what happens when you die, right? That's kind of the mystery, that makes it all fun. But, you know, to your point about being attracted to like, Indian sort of ideals and memories, I have found as I grow older, I gravitate more and more towards those things. Like,
do you mind that? I'm bringing it up so much in this. No, no, it's fine. It's fine. I think it's fine. It's just about a my I didn't. I didn't.
Yeah, it's fine. I mean, I'm in the into by origin and probably will end up
Back there at some point when I'm old enough, you know, I think about it. I like India, I love India. These are these are, these are my brothers and sisters, right? These are my people. I am, I am one of them. So,
there's a couple of places. I would love to take you to an India. I told you what, one of them in the car, which is the mountains like, Himalayas too many Secrets, when that's why you actually find the wisdom of the sages and feel it in the air the other places Banaras Varanasi.
Yeah, which is
in according to Sanada and it's the oldest city in the world and you do feel
It is chaotic. There's another part of it. That's extremely quiet. There's a part of Banaras called The Money, garnica Guard. Hmm, where they perpetually burned bodies for the sake of cremation. They say that when you stand at the money conical card and you view the body's burning whatever's inside you
What's up and comes on
to the outside and
that's where something inside you shifts. So for me, I just became very curious and I became more serious about this journey of podcasting. I realized that this is my true ikigai. Hmm. I mean, his concept for the sake of curiosity because you come face-to-face with that, you see human bodies burning, you know, if, if you actually view a human body burning at some point, the skull explodes
So, when you see that happening in front of you, it shifts something inside. And I Feel Again, India is definitely not for everyone, but it is force ecos. I mean, if you could keep
your death in front of you at all times, you will live a magical life, then you would value the exact moment that it's, you know, as being the complete and wholesome and only real sacred thing that
exists. Do you keep a dead thing for?
I try to it's not it doesn't always work but I do. It's
Bleah. It's probably the most liberating thing that I do. It's not, I don't do it as an exercise, I just, but it is on my mind. A lot. What's an ideal date for you?
It doesn't matter. Hopefully not slowly or painfully but you know, it's when it is, gone is gone. I guess the ideal would be, it would be good to be to have self realized before that you know ultimate truth.
Very good. I don't know if there's such a thing that that's that Enlightenment is not something you necessarily. From what I can tell. It's not something you necessarily find or create it's more just unlearning, it's a shedding. Its what remains when everything else is gone? So it's it is a mini death of its own sort, it is a death of the separate self in the mind and I'm not looking for that kind of death. But I would say, I'm looking for truth and if that's true, then I'll take the truth. I'll take the truth. I'll take an unhappy truth over a lie. Any day.
I don't think it's an unhappy truth anyway, but it doesn't matter. I'm open to whatever the truth is. If the truth is, I'm just a brain-in-a-vat. There's a simulation and someone's prodding and poking at me, and they're going to torture me for attorney, fine. Show me the truth. I'd rather know the truth.
You don't know a Joe Rogan episode. You spoke about how you used to meditate. Yeah, and you would just view alone, thought you'd sit in a place and just view your own thoughts. Yeah. And through that process, sometimes you read Stillness but you also had some psychedelic experiences. Do you ever think about those?
I kind of got bored of
it and I
just I don't think experiences of our the
thing did the distractions.
Yes any experience that comes will also go. The thing that matters is what your state of mind is, you know, at 2:30 p.m. in the afternoon when you're sitting by yourself. How do you feel? Are you very peaceful? Are you happy? Are you good? You know, 2:37 p.m. you're walking down the street? Are you okay? How do you feel? Are you good? That's what matters, right? It's the exact moment.
In time. What is your internal State? What is your external State? You know, what are the thoughts that are going through your head if any that's what matters. So I don't want Bliss for an hour a day. That's just another experience that comes and goes. I want
I want something that's indestructible.
Did you ever smoke weed?
You know, I live in California when you were younger. No, no. Luckily, that's the kind of thing that if I discovered in my youth I don't think I would have had a very productive youth because you get too into it. Yeah, it's too easy to turn off your brain. I think things like weed, you know, the West is going through a very hedonistic phase where it's all about being single and partying and doing drugs and
Those are hard things to resist, they can really destroy your sense of self being. I've definitely seen people who have done way too many even like say, for example, the common belief now is that like mushrooms are harmless right? They're not, I mean, you do enough of that stuff, it'll break your brain. You'll end up believing too many things that aren't real. You know. Same thing with weed. It will rob you of ambition because it's a very feminizing drug. It's a plant estrogen. So you're just gonna sit there, all day and smoke weed. You're not going to go do anything with your life, so,
Yes, there are definitely things that I have tried, but luckily, I would say I'm not getting sucked into any of them.
Say, I mean, even
water and excesses bad. Sure. But with that one will pretty well evolved for, right? It's just like, for example, if you just from an evolutionary past, if you'd had access to like, easyweed all the time, you would have gotten eaten by something, right, you wouldn't have made it very far. It's just in modern society. Yeah, we can do that. Modern site is really weird. Where are we?
We've changed our physical environment much faster than we are adopted for. So we do need all kinds of coping mechanisms, right? For example, we are all overfed we're under exercised over stimulated. Our minds are worrying about Faraway things, right? The media, the purpose of the media is that joke before is to make every problem your problem, right? You go and you go on social media and it's just all dueling mean, viruses each one trying to occupy a slot in your brain to Make You Care. Well,
No thousand years ago, someone could have gotten shot or blown up in some Faraway country. You would never heard about it. You had no stake in it. You had no way of knowing about it. Now it's just your brain is not managed. It is not designed to handle all the world's emergencies. In real time as they break, it's breaking your brain is some deep level. You're not even meant to see violence or pornography like, those are very weird and rare and unique new things. And so the modern struggle is to navigate through the fruits of a
Students that are wrecking you, right? It's actually the, the challenge of modernity is avoiding the fruits of modernity, right? For you have to become almost a yogi in self-defense to protect yourself.
It's called vain. I'll give in our culture and it means being in the middle of a party. Yeah, and seeing everyone party around you in being happy for them but not taking part in the party yourself other than just keeping your mind. Yeah, this is
why I am finding it harder and harder to go to
parties.
Because hard not to get involved in to indulge but it's so meaningless. It's just
another game, right? And they're fun and occasionally, I do go to parties, I do like a good party and you have a higher odds of dragged me out to a good party than to, like some tedious meeting. But all that said, like Even parties have kind of lost their luster.
What's now already climbed? Like when he's drunk or high
same but more talkative
mood, talkative more targeted. Yeah, because you're inherently a bit of an
introvert.
Yes. Yeah, gotcha on a podcast, I'm not but left to my own devices. I'm very much into it. I would much rather read or be on the Internet or just be walking around thinking or you know listening to You Tube or a podcast or something then hanging out with people.
Do you miss your childhood? No.
But I don't really think about it. I don't think about the past much consciously. Yeah, then you're asking me the question. I'm being forced to think about it for the first time in a long time. My bad. No, no, it's nothing wrong with it. I'm just saying, I don't think about it. So I don't have it. I don't have a predigested answer for you, that's great. Yeah, no. But I would say no. I don't miss my childhood. I do. It's like a dream. Is it real? We did actually happen.
Wow,
there's a code that goes, like, the past is
fiction. It is fiction, the past the past is it is a narrative, you don't remember most of it, the little bit that you do remember, is very selective memory stitched into a narrative. There's no point in really remembering it, presumably their lessons to learn, but you probably already digested. Those, I've learned them. You don't even think about those. So what's the
point
Do you think about the future at all? I think about the
future for practical things. Steal stuff well like, yeah. If I have to make money or investment in, or if I have to, like, figure out what to do with it, this child and this problem and solve that or you know, where do I want to have dinner? So yeah, in that sense, we are future planners but I don't, I don't think too far ahead. I don't obsess over it but I'm more of a future creature than a past creature for sure in an Ideal World. I would
I think that much about the future either, but I'm not there.
Think about forced, you
know, you have to do, I mean you're a functioning creature, the best in navigate the world. But I want to think about the future as regards to utilitarian things, you know, food money. You know, those kinds of things problem solving. I don't want to think about the future in sense of what does it hold for me? Like am I going to be happy? Am I going to be in a good relationship? You know? Am I going to die? Like
But that thing is interesting to think about. You kind of can't look away. It's like the most important thing that's going to happen to you, right? So you have to think about it, but I don't want to think about, I don't want a self-obsessed in the future. The reason I don't self-obsessed anymore or never even got that into it is because I just found it both a waste of time as well as it was destroying my happiness. Happiness is a big word, some more piece intruding on my piece.
Almost at the end of the episode. What advice do you have for
me? I have advice for you.
I mean, you must have gotten know something about me at this bike, or maybe I'll ask you the career advice aspect because I could reframe this question as. Yeah. How do you view the world of content? Creators going into the future? I would
say, okay, how can I give you some advice? I like being provocative. So, I would say be selfish be more selfish. Make sure you really enjoy your work, make sure you really are only working with
The people that you really like doing it, like working with, make sure you are only have the guests on that, you're proud to have on that. You genuinely want have conversations with because I think the the value already built something of incredible value, and it's going to continue compounding. So, the value now is about the longevity. How long can you keep it going? Whether you go to episode 1,000 or 2,000 or 5,000 matters, more than, yeah. You don't even grinder mode. If you're just grinding, you're going to burn.
Out and the day you burn out this thing is over. So I would say just make sure you enjoy yourself and so that's part of it. So be selfish and make sure you enjoy yourself and the second part of being selfish, is talk to people where you genuinely want to talk to them. Don't don't just record a podcast or record a podcast because, you know, you have to make certain amount of money or you got to check a box because you will be judged at the end of the day by your best work. Not by any by your average, all my content that is out there that people like I did.
Do it for them. I didn't do it for anything. I didn't do it for anyone. I just did it for me and it was deeply selfish. It was just notes to self. And there's nothing wrong with that because we're all the same inside. So, if you, if you're creating art, then you do it for its own sake. You do it, because you enjoy it, and then other people will see the same thing that you saw in it and they'll get value out of it. So I'd say just be selfish and you can sustain it.
Okay, now I will
You know, take the layers of, I'll take the filters off and tell you that this was one of the biggest days of my broadcasting career, you're very nice. You have helped me so much from a professional perspective being on the other side of the world and just speaking on other podcasts and there's so many people like me who just sit in different parts of this globe and consume pieces of Your Mind, through Twitter, through the stuff you say on podcasts, and I know you're very nonchalant about it, like you're just enjoying it, but you're adding
Um, so much value to our lives. And so many of us have daddy issues and mommy issues. And I think now are awakened has become kind of a big double figure to people all over the globe and to just be able to share screen space with you is one of the biggest honors of my life.
Yeah. The same time. The worst thing I could do for myself is get into the idea of having a fan base, because Fame is a beast, it'll eat you alive and I don't want to do anything for other people. I don't care about if they respect me or not disrespect all day.
Who cares?
I mean I hear you and you know just observing you go about how you handle him. We were together at an event, right? Yeah, it's taught me a lot. Just
sharing this one other thing I handle it. Well, you know, I got approached by a lot of people they want. Take a photo. It always kind of weirds me out a little bit. No, I just may be better not to be famous, to be honest. A, if I had to do it over again, it might be better to be anonymous.
Thank God. You're not Anonymous, but animal generally from the
Of my heart. I bow down to
you now. Don't know about Solis. That's embarrassing here relationships. Only I heal you but your bowels no gurus anyway. Cause me you want to not be my friend called me a good?
No, you're not going to be friends. I don't think your Guru but you are a bit of a young, you don't. Hear
means Brother, Big Brother.
Yeah. So that's what I look at you as and that's all a lot of brown people. Look at you
as Wright brothers that works.
There's some people who just omit that sense I energy and it's not there will. Again, it's the universe working through you. That's how I look at you.
So, thank you for everything. You've given obvious, you guiding a lot of young people and you're helping everyone with the mental and spiritual health
without knowing it. Thank you. You're very kind as Are you eight hundred episodes and you're obviously seeking bigger and bigger truth. So you're on a good path. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I
hope we get to speak again in life and I hope you had a very nice
time to thank you. I did thanks for
having me.
That was the episode was not easy to make this particular episode happen. I had to fly to Singapore, which is a five hour flight away from Mumbai, of course. Now, I'll flew from halfway across the world. Our common friend, biology told me that there is this opportunity and also agreed to do this particular episode. So this was the first ever episode. We short on foreign soil in my eyes. It's the first International
So don t RS, even though we've shot one with Arnold Schwarzenegger in Korea, we shot an episode with Ronnie Coleman in India. We shot an episode with Braun strowman in India. Countless foreign cricketers but I truly feel like my International phase of this podcasting Journey Begins with this very important and very iconic episode of the R&B show couldn't sleep on the night of this episode. Because this was a very important life moment for me. It's something I visualized for a very long time before we executed a
This podcast dream come true for anyone who's been listening to podcast for the last decade. We all know what a big deal now ravikant this. I'm just glad I got to do this, very easygoing conversation with him and I hope that he returns in there and Biggio at some point in the future. I will be attaching all the social handles down below. So for those of you who being introduced to him for the first time, please go for another, we can't on every social media platform. I also urge you to pick up Snippets from
This conversation and turn them into reels and shorts for social media. Thank you for listening and DRS and the whole team will be back very, very soon.
